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#1

Hello,
I have a question on this puzzle:
https://lichess.org/training/xpgvf

After playing bxf7 with white (black rook takes), then qxg6 (black plays qe7), I don't understand why I can't play qh8 to then take the black (or queen) rook with white bishop and come out with a bigger advantage.
Instead, the engine recommands castling my king - which I could still do after... Could you please explain why qh8 is not a good move according to the engine? :)

Thank you,

Hello, I have a question on this puzzle: https://lichess.org/training/xpgvf After playing bxf7 with white (black rook takes), then qxg6 (black plays qe7), I don't understand why I can't play qh8 to then take the black (or queen) rook with white bishop and come out with a bigger advantage. Instead, the engine recommands castling my king - which I could still do after... Could you please explain why qh8 is not a good move according to the engine? :) Thank you,
#2

Why a move is bad is often easy to see when you look at the engines response, if you activate the browser engine.
Just look at the lines or play the moves and look at the recommended responses.

In your specific examples you'd lose the queen, in on the next move in various ways. How would you even play qh8 after taking the knight?

Sometimes it's more subtle than in this case though, feel free to ask then too. Blacks queen cloud just take the pawn on e5 with check if you don't castle, I admit the I've never seen castling in a puzzle before though...

PS: How did you get this puzzle? It's rating is really high for the difficulty imho, it's pretty new i guess.

PPS: I'm sorry if this is weird but I assumed you're a beginner. No offense was intended.

Why a move is bad is often easy to see when you look at the engines response, if you activate the browser engine. Just look at the lines or play the moves and look at the recommended responses. In your specific examples you'd lose the queen, in on the next move in various ways. How would you even play qh8 after taking the knight? Sometimes it's more subtle than in this case though, feel free to ask then too. Blacks queen cloud just take the pawn on e5 with check if you don't castle, I admit the I've never seen castling in a puzzle before though... PS: How did you get this puzzle? It's rating is really high for the difficulty imho, it's pretty new i guess. PPS: I'm sorry if this is weird but I assumed you're a beginner. No offense was intended.
#3

Hello,
Thank you for your response! I'm sorry I meant to write qg8 check for white as a next move after taking the knight. To force black to put its rock on f8, white queen takes, black queen takes, bishop takes... Then e5 for black si no longer an option.
I got to this puzzle by playing puzzles... and building up to this score.
I don't really understand the comment on my level, I'm not sure what it has to do with this post but if you are interested to know I am an intermediate player.
Thank you,
Robin

Hello, Thank you for your response! I'm sorry I meant to write qg8 check for white as a next move after taking the knight. To force black to put its rock on f8, white queen takes, black queen takes, bishop takes... Then e5 for black si no longer an option. I got to this puzzle by playing puzzles... and building up to this score. I don't really understand the comment on my level, I'm not sure what it has to do with this post but if you are interested to know I am an intermediate player. Thank you, Robin
#4

When you finish a puzzle, underneath the thumbs-up button, there's a tiny bullseye, and that's the "play the computer from this position" button. You can use it on any move in the puzzle, and see how the computer responds to any alternative you thought of.

Looking at the computer analysis, the winning line is to keep the queens on and bring the a rook over for a stonger attack against the king; trading the material immediately removes too much of white's kingside threats and leaves black too strong on queenside.

It's rated 2664, the logic is practically wizardry.

When you finish a puzzle, underneath the thumbs-up button, there's a tiny bullseye, and that's the "play the computer from this position" button. You can use it on any move in the puzzle, and see how the computer responds to any alternative you thought of. Looking at the computer analysis, the winning line is to keep the queens on and bring the a rook over for a stonger attack against the king; trading the material immediately removes too much of white's kingside threats and leaves black too strong on queenside. It's rated 2664, the logic is practically wizardry.
#5

@robin_bruneel said in #3:

I don't really understand the comment on my level, I'm not sure what it has to do with this post but if you are interested to know I am an intermediate player.

Translation of my post from my confused state yesterday: the puzzle apparently went over my head ;) so much so that I though it must be 1000 points overrated...

Well I never stop learning.

I played through the computer lines. I'm not sure I can provide much help, the Endgame your suggestion leads to is apparently very bad for white comparatively. Having a queen against the pawn majority on the Queen side is apparently a lot better than winning two Pawns like you suggested.

@robin_bruneel said in #3: > I don't really understand the comment on my level, I'm not sure what it has to do with this post but if you are interested to know I am an intermediate player. Translation of my post from my confused state yesterday: the puzzle apparently went over my head ;) so much so that I though it must be 1000 points overrated... Well I never stop learning. I played through the computer lines. I'm not sure I can provide much help, the Endgame your suggestion leads to is apparently very bad for white comparatively. Having a queen against the pawn majority on the Queen side is apparently a lot better than winning two Pawns like you suggested.
#6

This is very difficult to grasp.

If you play Qg8+, then take twice on f8, Black has solved all of their problems. Looking at the material, Black has a bishop pair for a rook and a pawn, which is usually good for black. White has many passed pawns, but Black can probably activate their pieces very quickly now, while the white rooks are still not doing much. Seeing this as a big advantage for Black... well, I'd say it's not trivial to play for either side.

After 0-0 instead, Black didn't lose the exchange, but is completely tied up, and White attack comes quickly.

This is very difficult to grasp. If you play Qg8+, then take twice on f8, Black has solved all of their problems. Looking at the material, Black has a bishop pair for a rook and a pawn, which is usually good for black. White has many passed pawns, but Black can probably activate their pieces very quickly now, while the white rooks are still not doing much. Seeing this as a big advantage for Black... well, I'd say it's not trivial to play for either side. After 0-0 instead, Black didn't lose the exchange, but is completely tied up, and White attack comes quickly.
#7

Awesome, thanks for all these insights. Indeed, the position here with the exchange is not as interesting with black pressuring with pawn push and nothing much for white...

[Variant "From Position"]
[FEN "r1bqk3/pp1p1p1r/1bp2QnB/4P3/1P6/1Bp5/P4PPP/R3K2R w KQq - 2 18"]

  1. Bxf7+ Rxf7 19. Qxg6 Qe7 20. Qg8+ Rf8 21. Bxf8 Qxf8 22. Qxf8+ Kxf8 23. O-O (23. O-O-O a5) 23... a5

As if I avoid the trade, there is lots of pressure on the black king from the Queen and the bishop:

[Variant "From Position"]
[FEN "r1bqk3/pp1p1p1r/1bp2QnB/4P3/1P6/1Bp5/P4PPP/R3K2R w KQq - 2 18"]

  1. Bxf7+ Rxf7 19. Qxg6 Qe7 20. Qg8+ (20. O-O d6) 20... Rf8 21. Bxf8 Qxf8 22. Qxf8+ Kxf8 23. O-O (23. O-O-O a5) 23... a5

This is my first time trying to paste FEN so hopefully it works to show the two positions :)

Cheers,

Robin

Awesome, thanks for all these insights. Indeed, the position here with the exchange is not as interesting with black pressuring with pawn push and nothing much for white... [Variant "From Position"] [FEN "r1bqk3/pp1p1p1r/1bp2QnB/4P3/1P6/1Bp5/P4PPP/R3K2R w KQq - 2 18"] 18. Bxf7+ Rxf7 19. Qxg6 Qe7 20. Qg8+ Rf8 21. Bxf8 Qxf8 22. Qxf8+ Kxf8 23. O-O (23. O-O-O a5) 23... a5 As if I avoid the trade, there is lots of pressure on the black king from the Queen and the bishop: [Variant "From Position"] [FEN "r1bqk3/pp1p1p1r/1bp2QnB/4P3/1P6/1Bp5/P4PPP/R3K2R w KQq - 2 18"] 18. Bxf7+ Rxf7 19. Qxg6 Qe7 20. Qg8+ (20. O-O d6) 20... Rf8 21. Bxf8 Qxf8 22. Qxf8+ Kxf8 23. O-O (23. O-O-O a5) 23... a5 This is my first time trying to paste FEN so hopefully it works to show the two positions :) Cheers, Robin

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