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Absolutely Destroy The Caro-Kann

#2

Wow Caro Kann Defense its very very easy

Wow Caro Kann Defense its very very easy
#4

I liked the Qf4!? idea, but I doubt this is going to refute the Caro-Kann!
To begin with, 5.Qd3?! can be met by a whole variety of moves: 5...g6 actually prepares ...Bf5 after or before trading on f6, and as you can imagine, black isn't in the least worried about x.Nxf6+, since he's played 4...Nf6.
5...Nxe4 6.Qxe4 Qa5+ 7.Bd2 Qf5 forces the exchange of Queens and leads to pretty even position, so you're not going to checkmate anyone. For example: 8.Bd3 Qxe4 9.Bxe4 Nd7 followed by 10...Nf6.
But let's visit that Qf4 line: why doesn't the author mention the obvious 8...Nd5? White's Queen has to retreat to d2, 9.Qd2 (given that ...Nb4 could be a nasty threat) and then 9...Bg4 10.Ne5 Bf5 and I don't think 11.g4 is a good idea, so 11.c4 Nf6 12.Be2 e6 and now 13.g4 Bg6. And then What? 14.h4, right? but after 14...Qb6, threatening 15...Bb4 but also 15...0-0-0 hitting d4, seems to force 15.c5 but then 15...Qc7 and White's position is beginning to look like a swiss cheese!
Basic rule of thumb: when you read a post titled "how to destroy xxx opening", when that opening has been proven sound for more than several decades or even more than a century, please be cautious! sure, it'll probably work ok for bullet or even blitz against weaker opposition, but do you really need to play inferior moves to defeat someone at blitz?
Don't settle for quick "Mcdonalds recipes", do the hard work, cook your openings slowly, it'll be worth it in the long run...

I liked the Qf4!? idea, but I doubt this is going to refute the Caro-Kann! To begin with, 5.Qd3?! can be met by a whole variety of moves: 5...g6 actually prepares ...Bf5 after or before trading on f6, and as you can imagine, black isn't in the least worried about x.Nxf6+, since he's played 4...Nf6. 5...Nxe4 6.Qxe4 Qa5+ 7.Bd2 Qf5 forces the exchange of Queens and leads to pretty even position, so you're not going to checkmate anyone. For example: 8.Bd3 Qxe4 9.Bxe4 Nd7 followed by 10...Nf6. But let's visit that Qf4 line: why doesn't the author mention the obvious 8...Nd5? White's Queen has to retreat to d2, 9.Qd2 (given that ...Nb4 could be a nasty threat) and then 9...Bg4 10.Ne5 Bf5 and I don't think 11.g4 is a good idea, so 11.c4 Nf6 12.Be2 e6 and now 13.g4 Bg6. And then What? 14.h4, right? but after 14...Qb6, threatening 15...Bb4 but also 15...0-0-0 hitting d4, seems to force 15.c5 but then 15...Qc7 and White's position is beginning to look like a swiss cheese! Basic rule of thumb: when you read a post titled "how to destroy xxx opening", when that opening has been proven sound for more than several decades or even more than a century, please be cautious! sure, it'll probably work ok for bullet or even blitz against weaker opposition, but do you really need to play inferior moves to defeat someone at blitz? Don't settle for quick "Mcdonalds recipes", do the hard work, cook your openings slowly, it'll be worth it in the long run...
#5

@chessclinic said in #4:

I liked the Qf4!? idea, but I doubt this is going to refute the Caro-Kann!
To begin with, 5.Qd3?! can be met by a whole variety of moves: 5...g6 actually prepares ...Bf5 after or before trading on f6, and as you can imagine, black isn't in the least worried about x.Nxf6+, since he's played 4...Nf6.
5...Nxe4 6.Qxe4 Qa5+ 7.Bd2 Qf5 forces the exchange of Queens and leads to pretty even position, so you're not going to checkmate anyone. For example: 8.Bd3 Qxe4 9.Bxe4 Nd7 followed by 10...Nf6.
But let's visit that Qf4 line: why doesn't the author mention the obvious 8...Nd5? White's Queen has to retreat to d2, 9.Qd2 (given that ...Nb4 could be a nasty threat) and then 9...Bg4 10.Ne5 Bf5 and I don't think 11.g4 is a good idea, so 11.c4 Nf6 12.Be2 e6 and now 13.g4 Bg6. And then What? 14.h4, right? but after 14...Qb6, threatening 15...Bb4 but also 15...0-0-0 hitting d4, seems to force 15.c5 but then 15...Qc7 and White's position is beginning to look like a swiss cheese!
Basic rule of thumb: when you read a post titled "how to destroy xxx opening", when that opening has been proven sound for more than several decades or even more than a century, please be cautious! sure, it'll probably work ok for bullet or even blitz against weaker opposition, but do you really need to play inferior moves to defeat someone at blitz?
Don't settle for quick "Mcdonalds recipes", do the hard work, cook your openings slowly, it'll be worth it in the long run...
Absolutely agree

@chessclinic said in #4: > I liked the Qf4!? idea, but I doubt this is going to refute the Caro-Kann! > To begin with, 5.Qd3?! can be met by a whole variety of moves: 5...g6 actually prepares ...Bf5 after or before trading on f6, and as you can imagine, black isn't in the least worried about x.Nxf6+, since he's played 4...Nf6. > 5...Nxe4 6.Qxe4 Qa5+ 7.Bd2 Qf5 forces the exchange of Queens and leads to pretty even position, so you're not going to checkmate anyone. For example: 8.Bd3 Qxe4 9.Bxe4 Nd7 followed by 10...Nf6. > But let's visit that Qf4 line: why doesn't the author mention the obvious 8...Nd5? White's Queen has to retreat to d2, 9.Qd2 (given that ...Nb4 could be a nasty threat) and then 9...Bg4 10.Ne5 Bf5 and I don't think 11.g4 is a good idea, so 11.c4 Nf6 12.Be2 e6 and now 13.g4 Bg6. And then What? 14.h4, right? but after 14...Qb6, threatening 15...Bb4 but also 15...0-0-0 hitting d4, seems to force 15.c5 but then 15...Qc7 and White's position is beginning to look like a swiss cheese! > Basic rule of thumb: when you read a post titled "how to destroy xxx opening", when that opening has been proven sound for more than several decades or even more than a century, please be cautious! sure, it'll probably work ok for bullet or even blitz against weaker opposition, but do you really need to play inferior moves to defeat someone at blitz? > Don't settle for quick "Mcdonalds recipes", do the hard work, cook your openings slowly, it'll be worth it in the long run... Absolutely agree
#6

@chessclinic said in #4:
Hey! First of all it's an honor to have an IM read an comment my post, thank you very much!

I liked the Qf4!? idea, but I doubt this is going to refute the Caro-Kann!
To my knowledge Caro-Kann isn't refuted by engines, so no move can refute the Caro.

To begin with, 5.Qd3?! can be met by a whole variety of moves: 5...g6 actually prepares ...Bf5 after or before trading on f6, and as you can imagine, black isn't in the least worried about x.Nxf6+, since he's played 4...Nf6.
You are right, I haven't taken a look at immediate g6 before Nbd7, and it looks very annoying for White, but at the end of the day, White can just take on f6 and play the Tartakower structure. I'm gonna have to take a deeper look at 5... g6

5...Nxe4 6.Qxe4 Qa5+ 7.Bd2 Qf5 forces the exchange of Queens and leads to pretty even position, so you're not going to checkmate anyone. For example: 8.Bd3 Qxe4 9.Bxe4 Nd7 followed by 10...Nf6.
In my study in chapters 10. and 12. I go over what White should do if Black decides to trade the queens, and White's plans and ideas in theese positions. White still keeps an edge and can play an easy relaxing game. Launching an attack is just one of the ideas of 5. Qd3, but White has other plans in the position aswell.

But let's visit that Qf4 line: why doesn't the author mention the obvious 8...Nd5? White's Queen has to retreat to d2, 9.Qd2 (given that ...Nb4 could be a nasty threat) and then 9...Bg4 10.Ne5 Bf5 and I don't think 11.g4 is a good idea, so 11.c4 Nf6 12.Be2 e6 and now 13.g4 Bg6. And then What? 14.h4, right? but after 14...Qb6, threatening 15...Bb4 but also 15...0-0-0 hitting d4, seems to force 15.c5 but then 15...Qc7 and White's position is beginning to look like a swiss cheese!
Thats just not true. I look over the 8... Nd5 move in chapter 11. in my study. And I also go over White's plans in this position also showing the move Bd3 against Bf5, and the line you showed with Bg4 Ne5 Bf5 is a worse variation for Black, as White gets the knight to e5 for free.

Basic rule of thumb: when you read a post titled "how to destroy xxx opening", when that opening has been proven sound for more than several decades or even more than a century, please be cautious! sure, it'll probably work ok for bullet or even blitz against weaker opposition, but do you really need to play inferior moves to defeat someone at blitz?
Qd3 isn't inferior. It's one of engines top recomendations. And it poses very difficult practical problems. Also here is a bullet game against an IM rated almost 300 points higher than me at that time:

https://lichess.org/4c3YmpvK

Don't settle for quick "Mcdonalds recipes", do the hard work, cook your openings slowly, it'll be worth it in the long run...
That's exactly my point. In my post i said that this move is not a trap or a gambit, it's simply a good move that doesn't give up much advantage, but poses big problems.

@chessclinic said in #4: Hey! First of all it's an honor to have an IM read an comment my post, thank you very much! > I liked the Qf4!? idea, but I doubt this is going to refute the Caro-Kann! To my knowledge Caro-Kann isn't refuted by engines, so no move can refute the Caro. > To begin with, 5.Qd3?! can be met by a whole variety of moves: 5...g6 actually prepares ...Bf5 after or before trading on f6, and as you can imagine, black isn't in the least worried about x.Nxf6+, since he's played 4...Nf6. You are right, I haven't taken a look at immediate g6 before Nbd7, and it looks very annoying for White, but at the end of the day, White can just take on f6 and play the Tartakower structure. I'm gonna have to take a deeper look at 5... g6 > 5...Nxe4 6.Qxe4 Qa5+ 7.Bd2 Qf5 forces the exchange of Queens and leads to pretty even position, so you're not going to checkmate anyone. For example: 8.Bd3 Qxe4 9.Bxe4 Nd7 followed by 10...Nf6. In my study in chapters 10. and 12. I go over what White should do if Black decides to trade the queens, and White's plans and ideas in theese positions. White still keeps an edge and can play an easy relaxing game. Launching an attack is just one of the ideas of 5. Qd3, but White has other plans in the position aswell. > But let's visit that Qf4 line: why doesn't the author mention the obvious 8...Nd5? White's Queen has to retreat to d2, 9.Qd2 (given that ...Nb4 could be a nasty threat) and then 9...Bg4 10.Ne5 Bf5 and I don't think 11.g4 is a good idea, so 11.c4 Nf6 12.Be2 e6 and now 13.g4 Bg6. And then What? 14.h4, right? but after 14...Qb6, threatening 15...Bb4 but also 15...0-0-0 hitting d4, seems to force 15.c5 but then 15...Qc7 and White's position is beginning to look like a swiss cheese! Thats just not true. I look over the 8... Nd5 move in chapter 11. in my study. And I also go over White's plans in this position also showing the move Bd3 against Bf5, and the line you showed with Bg4 Ne5 Bf5 is a worse variation for Black, as White gets the knight to e5 for free. > Basic rule of thumb: when you read a post titled "how to destroy xxx opening", when that opening has been proven sound for more than several decades or even more than a century, please be cautious! sure, it'll probably work ok for bullet or even blitz against weaker opposition, but do you really need to play inferior moves to defeat someone at blitz? Qd3 isn't inferior. It's one of engines top recomendations. And it poses very difficult practical problems. Also here is a bullet game against an IM rated almost 300 points higher than me at that time: https://lichess.org/4c3YmpvK > Don't settle for quick "Mcdonalds recipes", do the hard work, cook your openings slowly, it'll be worth it in the long run... That's exactly my point. In my post i said that this move is not a trap or a gambit, it's simply a good move that doesn't give up much advantage, but poses big problems.
#7

"Absolutely destroy the caro kann"
Are these top guys stupid playing caro kann in important games?
Are engines stupid giving white only 0.3 advantage?
Stop the clickbait!

"Absolutely destroy the caro kann" Are these top guys stupid playing caro kann in important games? Are engines stupid giving white only 0.3 advantage? Stop the clickbait!
#8

@SarKarlsen17 said in #7:

"Absolutely destroy the caro kann"
Stop the clickbait!
I'm not entirely sure if I get yout point. My score in this opening across both my accounts is 35-4-14, which is as close to destroying an opening as it gets.

Are these top guys stupid playing caro kann in important games?
If you are saying that my point is invalid, because a grandmaster can defend this position in a classical game, well you can say that abuot any opening. I don't understand what does that change. You aren't playing a grandmaster in 90+30 time control, you are playing your opponent.

Are engines stupid giving white only 0.3 advantage?
And as I said in my previous reply, it's not a refutation of the opening, it's a solid tricky move. Also by that logic how is it possible that Alien Gambit, a completly losing opening, has a 55-40% winrate against opponents rated 2000+ in rapid or longer time controls (it gets bigger the lower the time and rating). There is more to chess than engine numbers. You are playing a human, you can outpreapare a human, you can trick a human, and this opening gives you more chances to do that while not losing the advantage.

@SarKarlsen17 said in #7: > "Absolutely destroy the caro kann" > Stop the clickbait! I'm not entirely sure if I get yout point. My score in this opening across both my accounts is 35-4-14, which is as close to destroying an opening as it gets. > Are these top guys stupid playing caro kann in important games? If you are saying that my point is invalid, because a grandmaster can defend this position in a classical game, well you can say that abuot any opening. I don't understand what does that change. You aren't playing a grandmaster in 90+30 time control, you are playing your opponent. > Are engines stupid giving white only 0.3 advantage? And as I said in my previous reply, it's not a refutation of the opening, it's a solid tricky move. Also by that logic how is it possible that Alien Gambit, a completly losing opening, has a 55-40% winrate against opponents rated 2000+ in rapid or longer time controls (it gets bigger the lower the time and rating). There is more to chess than engine numbers. You are playing a human, you can outpreapare a human, you can trick a human, and this opening gives you more chances to do that while not losing the advantage.
#9

I'm not insulting you.
But a better title can be: New weapon against carokann

I'm not insulting you. But a better title can be: New weapon against carokann