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Absolutely Destroy The Caro-Kann

@chessclinic said in #4:

I liked the Qf4!? idea, but I doubt this is going to refute the Caro-Kann!
To begin with, 5.Qd3?! can be met by a whole variety of moves: 5...g6 actually prepares ...Bf5 after or before trading on f6, and as you can imagine, black isn't in the least worried about x.Nxf6+, since he's played 4...Nf6.
5...Nxe4 6.Qxe4 Qa5+ 7.Bd2 Qf5 forces the exchange of Queens and leads to pretty even position, so you're not going to checkmate anyone. For example: 8.Bd3 Qxe4 9.Bxe4 Nd7 followed by 10...Nf6.
But let's visit that Qf4 line: why doesn't the author mention the obvious 8...Nd5? White's Queen has to retreat to d2, 9.Qd2 (given that ...Nb4 could be a nasty threat) and then 9...Bg4 10.Ne5 Bf5 and I don't think 11.g4 is a good idea, so 11.c4 Nf6 12.Be2 e6 and now 13.g4 Bg6. And then What? 14.h4, right? but after 14...Qb6, threatening 15...Bb4 but also 15...0-0-0 hitting d4, seems to force 15.c5 but then 15...Qc7 and White's position is beginning to look like a swiss cheese!
Basic rule of thumb: when you read a post titled "how to destroy xxx opening", when that opening has been proven sound for more than several decades or even more than a century, please be cautious! sure, it'll probably work ok for bullet or even blitz against weaker opposition, but do you really need to play inferior moves to defeat someone at blitz?
Don't settle for quick "Mcdonalds recipes", do the hard work, cook your openings slowly, it'll be worth it in the long run...

@chessclinic said in #4: > I liked the Qf4!? idea, but I doubt this is going to refute the Caro-Kann! > To begin with, 5.Qd3?! can be met by a whole variety of moves: 5...g6 actually prepares ...Bf5 after or before trading on f6, and as you can imagine, black isn't in the least worried about x.Nxf6+, since he's played 4...Nf6. > 5...Nxe4 6.Qxe4 Qa5+ 7.Bd2 Qf5 forces the exchange of Queens and leads to pretty even position, so you're not going to checkmate anyone. For example: 8.Bd3 Qxe4 9.Bxe4 Nd7 followed by 10...Nf6. > But let's visit that Qf4 line: why doesn't the author mention the obvious 8...Nd5? White's Queen has to retreat to d2, 9.Qd2 (given that ...Nb4 could be a nasty threat) and then 9...Bg4 10.Ne5 Bf5 and I don't think 11.g4 is a good idea, so 11.c4 Nf6 12.Be2 e6 and now 13.g4 Bg6. And then What? 14.h4, right? but after 14...Qb6, threatening 15...Bb4 but also 15...0-0-0 hitting d4, seems to force 15.c5 but then 15...Qc7 and White's position is beginning to look like a swiss cheese! > Basic rule of thumb: when you read a post titled "how to destroy xxx opening", when that opening has been proven sound for more than several decades or even more than a century, please be cautious! sure, it'll probably work ok for bullet or even blitz against weaker opposition, but do you really need to play inferior moves to defeat someone at blitz? > Don't settle for quick "Mcdonalds recipes", do the hard work, cook your openings slowly, it'll be worth it in the long run...

Hey! First of all it's an honor to have an IM read an comment my post, thank you very much!

To my knowledge Caro-Kann isn't refuted by engines, so no move can refute the Caro.

You are right, I haven't taken a look at immediate g6 before Nbd7, and it looks very annoying for White, but at the end of the day, White can just take on f6 and play the Tartakower structure. I'm gonna have to take a deeper look at 5... g6

In my study in chapters 10. and 12. I go over what White should do if Black decides to trade the queens, and White's plans and ideas in theese positions. White still keeps an edge and can play an easy relaxing game. Launching an attack is just one of the ideas of 5. Qd3, but White has other plans in the position aswell.

Thats just not true. I look over the 8... Nd5 move in chapter 11. in my study. And I also go over White's plans in this position also showing the move Bd3 against Bf5, and the line you showed with Bg4 Ne5 Bf5 is a worse variation for Black, as White gets the knight to e5 for free.

Qd3 isn't inferior. It's one of engines top recomendations. And it poses very difficult practical problems. Also here is a bullet game against an IM rated almost 300 points higher than me at that time: lichess.org/4c3YmpvK

That's exactly my point. In my post i said that this move is not a trap or a gambit, it's simply a good move that doesn't give up much advantage, but poses big problems.

> Hey! First of all it's an honor to have an IM read an comment my post, thank you very much! > > > To my knowledge Caro-Kann isn't refuted by engines, so no move can refute the Caro. > > > You are right, I haven't taken a look at immediate g6 before Nbd7, and it looks very annoying for White, but at the end of the day, White can just take on f6 and play the Tartakower structure. I'm gonna have to take a deeper look at 5... g6 > > > In my study in chapters 10. and 12. I go over what White should do if Black decides to trade the queens, and White's plans and ideas in theese positions. White still keeps an edge and can play an easy relaxing game. Launching an attack is just one of the ideas of 5. Qd3, but White has other plans in the position aswell. > > > Thats just not true. I look over the 8... Nd5 move in chapter 11. in my study. And I also go over White's plans in this position also showing the move Bd3 against Bf5, and the line you showed with Bg4 Ne5 Bf5 is a worse variation for Black, as White gets the knight to e5 for free. > > > Qd3 isn't inferior. It's one of engines top recomendations. And it poses very difficult practical problems. Also here is a bullet game against an IM rated almost 300 points higher than me at that time: lichess.org/4c3YmpvK > > > That's exactly my point. In my post i said that this move is not a trap or a gambit, it's simply a good move that doesn't give up much advantage, but poses big problems.

@SarKarlsen17 said in #9:

I'm not insulting you.
I understand, you provided some arguments, that I don't agree with, so I defended my title.
And I still believe that 35-4-14 is a good enough score to call the blog the way it's called, it often leads to flashy finishes, so I think the title fits perfectly.

@SarKarlsen17 said in #9: > I'm not insulting you. I understand, you provided some arguments, that I don't agree with, so I defended my title. And I still believe that 35-4-14 is a good enough score to call the blog the way it's called, it often leads to flashy finishes, so I think the title fits perfectly.

Good blog at itselfs but clickbait title like all overconvidenced people do...

Good blog at itselfs but clickbait title like all overconvidenced people do...

@The_Eruptodon said in #14:

Good blog at itselfs but clickbait title like all overconvidenced people do...
It's an honor hearing that from a titled player. Can I ask if you have ever played, or faced this line? I'm very curious how does it perform at the top level.

@The_Eruptodon said in #14: > Good blog at itselfs but clickbait title like all overconvidenced people do... It's an honor hearing that from a titled player. Can I ask if you have ever played, or faced this line? I'm very curious how does it perform at the top level.

@Shmuel_grinshteinn Qd3 is the 3rd engine move, it has an evaluation of +0.1 or something like that so it is completely sound.

@Shmuel_grinshteinn Qd3 is the 3rd engine move, it has an evaluation of +0.1 or something like that so it is completely sound.

@ChickyCheck currently not playing Caro for black and neither for white, as i play d4 first move. Also top level is completely wrong name for my niveau.

@ChickyCheck currently not playing Caro for black and neither for white, as i play d4 first move. Also top level is completely wrong name for my niveau.
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@The_Eruptodon said in #17:

@Shmuel_grinshteinn Qd3 is the 3rd engine move, it has an evaluation of +0.1 or something like that so it is completely sound.

yes, i know that it is a playble line, but no one played it against me, so i didn't know.
thanks for telling

@The_Eruptodon said in #17: > @Shmuel_grinshteinn Qd3 is the 3rd engine move, it has an evaluation of +0.1 or something like that so it is completely sound. yes, i know that it is a playble line, but no one played it against me, so i didn't know. thanks for telling