Kramnik deliberately cherrypicks data and tells lies to manipulate the narrative.
The whole thing about Danya is seems purely based on his appointment that Danya didn't support him when Kramnik got under fire from Hikaru.
The rating framing in Blitz? Completely delusional. Danya played the same tournaments for ages, on his home town, his club. Completely obvious, and publicly available.
Cheating in a game? Well, he used an engine to analyse the opening (which was over for a long time), in a completely winning position against 1000 rated player while waiting for their resignation. It was on an educational stream, and he provides nothing but excellent teaching and inspiring material for the viewers there. Is it cheating? Well, you might say it meets the definition of it, but by no means how it is cheating by any reasonable interpretation.
The mysterious Bc8 move? Completely misrepresented. That move was not even played in the game, simply given as an idea. He played something the engine thought was inferior. Also, Danya has shown that the idea was a common idea on similar positions.
His eye movements.... really? Danya has even provided footage with the whole setup, demonstrating everything, and Kramnik is still not satisfied.
Danya not finishing off the opponent in WCH-style late at night in a blitz game in stream? Again, WK thinks this is very suspicious.
Hikauru recently called Kramnik a disgrace for chess. At this point. I strongly agree. I think his behaviour is so damaging to chess and its most respected players, that FIDE should step in and put a stop to this.
context - Danya was already in a largely winning position, the speed run consists of creating a new account with a very low ranking (only on the other site and with authorization for streamers) then to increase this ranking as much as possible, and to close the account, which will automatically refund players who were defeated in the process.
no financial interest apart from views and subscriptions to his channel, that is to say not a tournament, educational goal - to show the best moves for the purpose of a course which is itself a pretext for this speedrun.
It's morally questionable, but I wouldn't consider it cheating given the context.
therefore, that's good to find out before forming an opinion
@CSKA_Moscou
I understand but regardless of whether he is completely winning or completely losing or equal turning on an engine mid game is definitely dodgy.
Additionally that engine seems to be in the same direction that he continuously glances in.
Lastly the point isn’t Naroditsky. He is obviously an admitted engine user. If the chess cabal can somehow drum up an explanation for why using an engine by Naroditsky is absolutely fine and Kramnik is crazy for objecting to engine use mid game and convince the public good for them.
I do however feel Kramnik has been getting a lot of undeserved criticism for pointing out cheaters. Even I till I saw the Naroditsky video used to think Kramnik is crazy.
I don’t care what excuses the chess gang comes up with to discredit Kramnik I am beginning to believe that he may be right and that cheating at the absolute top level is rampant and he isn’t crazy to keep pointing it out.
It’s crazy how people have been conditioned by chess influencer into siding against Kramnik rather than with him and seek more accountability from the players.
@CSKA_Moscou said in #12:
> It's morally questionable, but I wouldn't consider it cheating given the context.
Agreed. Like many other streamers, he tends to focus on his show a bit too much and forget that there is a human being on the other side who likely wanted to play a normal chess game. Which is what I find questionable in the speedrun idea, no matter if the rating is reverted or not.
To be honest, I don't see how looking at a position 10-20 moves back would be even morally questionable. It is just of no help whatsoever at this point.
Sure, we don't do it, but mainly because of principles.
It's probably more gullible to cross a red traffic light at an empty road at night as a pedestrian.
We have a saying that would roughly translate as something like "He who wants to beat a dog, can always find a stick."
@JayeshSinha said in #13:
> @CSKA_Moscou
>
> I understand but regardless of whether he is completely winning or completely losing or equal turning on an engine mid game is definitely dodgy
the goal is educational and the opponent probably had his points refunded after this speedrun, in a chess class you can train with an engine, that's what Danya did in this video by showing opening lines. where it is questionable is the speedrun itself which consists of the creation of a “disposable” account.
Danya was perfectly capable of beating this guy without the engine, but it might have been a little less credible for the educational aspect of the video since he wouldn't have needed to see the other lines
---
Kramnik is not wrong in the sense that cheating is a problem online as IRL, but he doesn't find answers to the problem, he blames the players but doesn't offer anything meaningful, so yes, cheating is a serious problem, but the way Kramnik treats cheating in the media is also problematic - it can lead to a wave of panic for amateur average players, to real psychosis at the professional level.
What is in need ? support and help for the players, that's what's missing. The mental health of chess players is increasingly neglected or ignored and the world's top chess players are among the athletes who travel the most, which in itself is a hellish pace of life. if the players are well supported and there is awareness of human issues surrounding the game plus strong sanctions in the event of an incident, there will be a much calmer gaming climate.
How is this "cheating"? Lichess fair play policy prohibits "use of any external assistance" - which "using an engine during a game to analyze already made moves" is obviously not. Is Chesscom policy any different?
Funny thing, when I'm completely winning and my opponent is stalling, a year ago I used the time to analyze my other games (*not* current game, obviously) - but now I'm waiting for the game to finish before I use the engine even for other games! I want to be over-cautious just because of all these cheating scandals - maybe someone could think I'm getting fresh ideas from old games' analysis :)
@lightln2 said in #18:
> How is this "cheating"? Lichess fair play policy prohibits "use of any external assistance" - which "using an engine during a game to analyze already made moves" is obviously not. Is Chesscom policy any different?
>
I seem to have misunderstood.
Are you trying to say that using an engine to look at a position and determine whether you are winning or losing (even without looking at suggested lines ahead) is not cheating?
If so then that would be news to me!
@CSKA_Moscou
I do not know how to quote individual portions of the reply. So will broadly cover some portions of your reply.
Educational or not, points refund or not ... the point is it is ample proof that Naroditsky has easy access to an engine that too in the direction that he constantly stares off into.
How often does he use it, who knows.
But if seeing all this together (the staring to the side, the staring in that direction during “educational” videos at engines) Kramnik feels he should be suspicious of Naroditsky then fine, I see Kramnik’s point of view.
Suspicion is not prod of course but I Atleast see what grounds Kramnik has to be suspicious on.
Of course I believe that a GM could defeat a low rated player without an engine. That’s not the point. It’s the easy access to engine in the direction of the stares that is alarming.
And it is mental health of Kramnik that made me do this post. The ooor guy has been bullied and sullied all over the Internet as if he had gone mad suddenly.
Even I used to think Kramnik was batshit crazy when he levelled allegations against a player. Then I said let me at least see what this deranged perosn is constantly on about and saw the Naroditsky videos and Kramnik didn’t come across as deranged at all. I could totally see where his suspicions arose from.
That is the aspect that I find so annoying. That Kramnik is being subject to deranged levels of cyber bullying for rational suspicions and everyone else is siding with the engine user ️
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