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Alekhines defence and stockfish

#1

At a young age I was told that the Alekhines defence is a bad opening for black but for some reason i seem to strugle against it.

I put the first 2 moves in stockfish and played all the engine recommendations. After this position.

  1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 exd6
  2. c4 Nf6

White is up +0.8 but after playing the next 2 engine moves 6. Nf3 Be7 7. Bd3 White is only up +0.1!?!

In my quest to try and understand engines better I was hoping someone could explain this. How can you lose 0.7 points (almost 1 pawn) by playing only the top engine moves? Is this a typical case of white losing his starting advantage or is this just a miscalculation from the engine.

Anyways i just found out the Alekhines defence is not only playable it is a very solid and good opening gaining equality in only 7 moves.

At a young age I was told that the Alekhines defence is a bad opening for black but for some reason i seem to strugle against it. I put the first 2 moves in stockfish and played all the engine recommendations. After this position. 1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. exd6 exd6 5. c4 Nf6 White is up +0.8 but after playing the next 2 engine moves 6. Nf3 Be7 7. Bd3 White is only up +0.1!?! In my quest to try and understand engines better I was hoping someone could explain this. How can you lose 0.7 points (almost 1 pawn) by playing only the top engine moves? Is this a typical case of white losing his starting advantage or is this just a miscalculation from the engine. Anyways i just found out the Alekhines defence is not only playable it is a very solid and good opening gaining equality in only 7 moves.
#2

Uhm ok so now i dont get it at all any more, the longer you play top engine moves the bigger whites advantages becomes.

Uhm ok so now i dont get it at all any more, the longer you play top engine moves the bigger whites advantages becomes.
#3

During an opening, I wouldn't put much credence into any engine calculation of less than a pawn.

What does it mean to be ahead by a fractional pawn? White is up half a pawn?

Maybe switch to a percentage based engine like Leela? "White has 55% chance of winning this position." That makes more sense.

I was curious, so I started playing through Alekhines defence with Leela, which shows a slight but not very changing advantage for white for the first several standard moves. My guess is that you're not letting Stockfish calculate long enough to arrive at a decent evaluation.

The book Game Changer is very interesting. I'm about halfway through. I really like the chapter "ZeroZeroZero" which talks about the more traditional chess engines getting stuck in thinking many moves in specific scenarioes are equal for both white and black, and how Leela combats that.

The end game isn't much better. Should you prefer a move that shows an evaluation of 26.852 over a mere 18.231 one?

During an opening, I wouldn't put much credence into any engine calculation of less than a pawn. What does it mean to be ahead by a fractional pawn? White is up half a pawn? Maybe switch to a percentage based engine like Leela? "White has 55% chance of winning this position." That makes more sense. I was curious, so I started playing through Alekhines defence with Leela, which shows a slight but not very changing advantage for white for the first several standard moves. My guess is that you're not letting Stockfish calculate long enough to arrive at a decent evaluation. The book Game Changer is very interesting. I'm about halfway through. I really like the chapter "ZeroZeroZero" which talks about the more traditional chess engines getting stuck in thinking many moves in specific scenarioes are equal for both white and black, and how Leela combats that. The end game isn't much better. Should you prefer a move that shows an evaluation of 26.852 over a mere 18.231 one?
#4

@WBillH Most top players spend hours every day comming up with new opening ideas that give em a slight edge, +0.7 is huge in that case. I believe that in classical games +1.5 is a winning advantage. In the endgame i would say +20 or +10 doesnt matter that much if it is that winning. Im looking for small edges wich you can grind down and stockfish doesnt seem to help. In conclusion i guess we can say the Alekhine defence is perfectly fine for black.

@WBillH Most top players spend hours every day comming up with new opening ideas that give em a slight edge, +0.7 is huge in that case. I believe that in classical games +1.5 is a winning advantage. In the endgame i would say +20 or +10 doesnt matter that much if it is that winning. Im looking for small edges wich you can grind down and stockfish doesnt seem to help. In conclusion i guess we can say the Alekhine defence is perfectly fine for black.
#5

+0.8 is a draw, with some small chances for an advantage, useless for practical play.

+0.8 is a draw, with some small chances for an advantage, useless for practical play.
#6

I beg to disagree, i think 0.8 is a significant advantage.

I beg to disagree, i think 0.8 is a significant advantage.
#9

I think the engine could be incorrect, as tpr says, a position is either a win for one side or a draw, every other evaluation is caused by the limitations of the engine. So 0.8 could actually be 0.0 with correct play from both sides of course.

I think the engine could be incorrect, as tpr says, a position is either a win for one side or a draw, every other evaluation is caused by the limitations of the engine. So 0.8 could actually be 0.0 with correct play from both sides of course.
#10

The topic from 2015? Chess engines history. I remember Rybka users (3000 ELO) posts when they were analysing complex positions in famous games. Then Stockfish 11 came and proved that what they said in forums was wrong.

The topic from 2015? Chess engines history. I remember Rybka users (3000 ELO) posts when they were analysing complex positions in famous games. Then Stockfish 11 came and proved that what they said in forums was wrong.

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