Which is worse? Cheating or sandbagging a cheater?

@UnderwaterDillDough

> Even when a cheater cheats, they aren't always cheating.

Yes, they are. I'm not sure how the food analogy fits in here, Cheating by using an engine or other outside assistance, or deliberately losing games to lose rating and have an easier time in an arena are all cheating, all against TOS, and can all get you banned.

@QueenRosieMary said in #11:
> @UnderwaterDillDough
> Yes, they are. I'm not sure how the food analogy fits in here, Cheating by using an engine or other outside assistance, or deliberately losing games to lose rating and have an easier time in an arena are all cheating, all against TOS, and can all get you banned.

What I meant was, let's say a player cheated on Monday, does that mean they cheated Tuesday to Friday? They aren't necessarily cheating. On chess.com I sometimes get points back for a detected cheater. But when I go to the games sometimes I play against them, I see that I made bad moves and I don't see how they cheated. The answer to that is they probably cheated in another game.

So, you might be right in how servers treat cheaters, but that doesn't mean they always cheat. As for the food analogy, reread my examples. There are different levels of cooking/food preparation. GMs make their own bread for pizza and it tastes great. Club players when trying might have it "school cafeteria" delicious. A sandbagger wouldn't even attempt to make a pizza. They would just get a frozen one from the freezer. That doesn't mean they earned it, they just took the easy route.

Cheating or sandbagging is just plain stupid!
Lichess will eventually catch up with both and "mark" the accounts!
So, what was achieved?
Sure, new accounts can be created, but why bother if cheating and/or sandbagging is all that's going to be repeated!
Just enjoy what Lichess offers, an ad-free place that costs nothing to enjoy playing a game of Chess.

@Rankrotten said in #13:
> Cheating or sandbagging is just plain stupid!
> Lichess will eventually catch up with both and "mark" the accounts!
> So, what was achieved?
> Sure, new accounts can be created, but why bother if cheating and/or sandbagging is all that's going to be repeated!
> Just enjoy what Lichess offers, an ad-free place that costs nothing to enjoy playing a game of Chess.
actually, i reported a cheater/self-player a week ago and hes still not banned! Lichess doesn't catch everyone!

@UnderwaterDillDough said in #12:
> What I meant was, let's say a player cheated on Monday, does that mean they cheated Tuesday to Friday? They aren't necessarily cheating.

If they cheated on Monday, they are a cheat, period, and should be removed from the pool of players so no one else has to suffer. Do bank robbers rob a bank every day?

> So, you might be right in how servers treat cheaters, but that doesn't mean they always cheat.

Irrelevant how often it happens, if they have a bad character then cheating or sandbagging is a symptom of that.

@Sarg0n said in #5:
> Being a wrong-way driver or overtaking one?

wrong way driver

@QueenRosieMary said in #15:
> If they cheated on Monday, they are a cheat, period, and should be removed from the pool of players so no one else has to suffer. Do bank robbers rob a bank every day?

No, they are punished and then if necessary reformed. You are comparing a bank robbery with an imaginary Monopoly rating for chess as it relates to cheating/sandbagging. Those two are not relatively in any way similar.

Hans was banned for about 1 year from chess.com. The usual punishment for a bank robbery is 5 to 18 years, and that is without any injuries/deaths.

Let's make this a more absurd comparison. What if a 17 year old high school student is caught drinking? How do you stop them from entering a bar or club when they reach legal age in their country?

Your solution is to genocide them.

@UnderwaterDillDough said in #17:
> No, they are punished and then if necessary reformed. You are comparing a bank robbery with an imaginary Monopoly rating for chess as it relates to cheating/sandbagging. Those two are not relatively in any way similar.
>

No, I'm saying just because someone does not commit an offence every day doesn't mean they didn't do it

> Hans was banned for about 1 year from chess.com. The usual punishment for a bank robbery is 5 to 18 years, and that is without any injuries/deaths.
>

Again, deliberately missing the point

> Let's make this a more absurd comparison. What if a 17-year-old high school student is caught drinking? How do you stop them from entering a bar or club when they reach legal age in their country?
>
> Your solution is to genocide them.

How have we gone from me saying "Let's ban cheaters and sandbaggers from Lichess" to "Let's genocide underaged drinkers"? Also, why do you want to stop them from going to the bar when they reach legal age? Surely they can drink then? I'm a bit confused xD

You sound like you are trying to justify cheating and sandbagging as ok because online chess rating is an "imaginary Monopoly rating for chess" which somehow makes it all fine.

Raiding the fridge, bad driving, robbing banks or any other scenario is irreverent!
The topic is about cheating/sandbagging on Lichess!
Both are wrong!
There is no legit reason for doing so!
Such players are ruining the experience for others who play fair.

@ALucasM said in #14:
> actually, i reported a cheater/self-player a week ago and hes still not banned! Lichess doesn't catch everyone!
I guess your report wasnt strong enough or you didnt get enough people to report him