German authorities are investigating images projected onto the Tesla Gigafactory just outside Berlin that depicted Elon Musk apparently performing a Nazi-style salute at US President Donald Trump's recent inauguration.
In conjunction with the name of Musk's company, this formed the phrase "Heil Tesla" — a play on "Heil Hitler," the phrase which accompanied the use of the Nazi stiff-armed salute during dictator Adolf Hitler's time in power.
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Now, German security services have launched an investigation into the suspected use of symbols of anti-constitutional organizations, including the depicted salute itself, the use or display of which is illegal in Germany.
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Responsibility for the stunt has now been claimed by the British political campaign group Led By Donkeys, in conjunction with the German satirical Center for Political Beauty.
Some on the political left in Germany contended that if authorities convict any of the group's members for projecting an illegal image, it would show — in Germany at least — that the gesture was indeed a Nazi salute and not a means of thanking the members of the audience at his speech as Musk and other have said.
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-musk-tesla-nazi-salute/a-71403737
Oh jeez.... This poo again ...
"Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have."
"Never go outside the expertise of your people."
"Whenever possible go outside the expertise of the enemy."
"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
"A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
"A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."
"Keep the pressure on."
"The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."
"The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."
"If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative."
"The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
@Raspberry_yoghurt said in #1:
> Some on the political left in Germany contended that if authorities convict any of the group's members for projecting an illegal image, it would show — in Germany at least — that the gesture was indeed a Nazi salute and not a means of thanking the members of the audience at his speech as Musk and other have said.
Let me start by saying I am no fan of Elon Musk and that was a stupid gesture to make and I cannot be convinced he was not aware of exactly what he was doing. Whether he was just being edgy or it had real political significance, I don't know. But convincing me and saying there is no plausible deniability legally are not the same thing. A still picture of someone with an outstretched arm really only becomes Nazi symbolism when you add a something else to it to confirm it like a caption like "heil tesla". I don;t really know German law but wouldn't a picture of a sweet old lady waving goodbye the her grandchildren caught at the right moment with the caption "Heil Granny" be considered illegal symbolism even though the lady in the picture is completely innocent and taken out of context?
There seems to be too much projecting in the world thesedays, it's becoming a pestilence. :).
@Filfthy said in #3:
> Let me start by saying I am no fan of Elon Musk and that was a stupid gesture to make and I cannot be convinced he was not aware of exactly what he was doing. Whether he was just being edgy or it had real political significance, I don't know. But convincing me and saying there is no plausible deniability legally are not the same thing. A still picture of someone with an outstretched arm really only becomes Nazi symbolism when you add a something else to it to confirm it like a caption like "heil tesla". I don;t really know German law but wouldn't a picture of a sweet old lady waving goodbye the her grandchildren caught at the right moment with the caption "Heil Granny" be considered illegal symbolism even though the lady in the picture is completely innocent and taken out of context?
Enough people have learned History at school or from an ancestor to know that raising an outstretched right arm with a closed hand is not a trivial thing.
especially in public.
but ultimately, it depends on how people learned History, no doubt.
and it wasn't a hello or a wave with the hand, and if an old lady or an old man in the street did that, I would have had serious doubts about her/his past
@CSKA_Moscou , you know I respect you. But I have to notice what many in the media seem to leave out from the discussion -- i.e., what Musk SAID AT THE TIME.
His hand gesture was NOT made in an angry silence. It was made in joyous, noisy celebration.
Few seem to realize -- because a lot of people have apparently only seen a short, clipped video (how convenient) -- that:
MUSK SAID, TO THE CELEBRATING CROWD, "MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU" as soon as his gesture occurred.
Now look at what he did.
He tapped HIS HEART, and then?
His hand went OUT FROM HIS HEART.
It was OBVIOUSLY NOT a "Nazi salute." OBVIOUSLY.
Musk acted and spoke NOTHING like Hitler.
I don't ask anybody to believe this. People can easily look for themselves. The video, with sound, wasn't hard for me to find.
Politics produces too many silly talking points.
Remember the silly "pee tapes" nonsense about Trump? This is even more ridiculous, since we can ACTUALLY HEAR what Musk said AT THE TIME.
@Filfthy said in #3:
> I don;t really know German law but wouldn't a picture of a sweet old lady waving goodbye the her grandchildren caught at the right moment with the caption "Heil Granny" be considered illegal symbolism even though the lady in the picture is completely innocent and taken out of context?
Well the granny would not be convicted then.
But Musk might be because he's doing the Hitlergruss plus has a history of engaging with that sort of political content.
It doesn't get you off just to say "but I was just waving" or whatever. If accuser can make it look likely you're just lying about just waving, but infact you're doing the Nazu salute, then you'll get sentence. Off course, everybody will claim they were just stretching or something lol People get convicted for it all the time in Germany despite I guess everybody making excuses like I was waving or I was stretching.
Anyway, there's no need to speculate what the courts will decide, we can just wait and see what they decide.
@Noflaps said in #6:
> @CSKA_Moscou , you know I respect you. But I have to notice what many in the media seem to leave out from the discussion -- i.e., what Musk SAID AT THE TIME.
>
> His hand gesture was NOT made in an angry silence.
Nobody says that lol?
> MUSK SAID, TO THE CELEBRATING CROWD, "MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU" as soon as his gesture occurred.
There is no rule that says "if you say xyz" and then do a Nazi salute then it isn't a Nazi salute.
So that is irrelevant.
> Now look at what he did.
>
> He tapped HIS HEART, and then?
>
> His hand went OUT FROM HIS HEART.
And? That doesn't mean it isn't a nazi salute lol
Why do you even think this is an argument? It's like saying "he is wearing a jacket so he is not nazi". The answer would just be "he could still be a Nazi wearing his jacket" and to you the answer is "he could be a Nazi tapping his heart".
> It was OBVIOUSLY NOT a "Nazi salute." OBVIOUSLY.
How come the Nazis think it was?
Like Naxis probably knows what it looks like right? And the Nazis are like "hey, he's one of us, doing our salute." And if you were right and Musk's salute is nothing like a Nazi salute, the Nazis wouldn't be like that right?
In other news, Musk has a LONG history of liking right extreme Nazi types, engaging with nazi content on twtter, promoting nazi stuff on twitter and so on.
> Musk acted and spoke NOTHING like Hitler.
Well sweetiepie, nobody says Musk "acted" like Hitler and also nobody says he "spoke" like Hitler. So nobody cares about that.
The issue is he did the Nazi salute.
> I don't ask anybody to believe this. People can easily look for themselves. The video, with sound, wasn't hard for me to find.
Here is the video? It's a nazi salute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joV-9FFoA3Q
@Raspberry_yoghurt said in #7:
> But Musk might be because he's doing the Hitlergruss plus has a history of engaging with that sort of political content.
Maybe, but the point I was trying to make is that left wing groups claiming that if projecting an image of Musk is an illegal act it necessarily follows that Musk is a criminal. I don't think that argument is solid.
@Filfthy said in #9:
> Maybe, but the point I was trying to make is that left wing groups claiming that if projecting an image of Musk is an illegal act it necessarily follows that Musk is a criminal. I don't think that argument is solid.
Well, Musk did his Nazi salute in USA so it doesn't fall under the juridsiction of the German court. Musk is not under trial either. Therefore Musk will not be a criminal no matter what happens here.
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