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Police investigate Musk salute projected on Tesla factory

#11

@Raspberry_yoghurt said in #10:

Well, Musk did his Nazi salute in USA so it doesn't fall under the juridsiction of the German court. Musk is not under trial either. Therefore Musk will not be a criminal no matter what happens here.

He should do it the same thing in Germany.

@Raspberry_yoghurt said in #10: > Well, Musk did his Nazi salute in USA so it doesn't fall under the juridsiction of the German court. Musk is not under trial either. Therefore Musk will not be a criminal no matter what happens here. He should do it the same thing in Germany.
#12

@Noflaps I reiterate once again that I respect you as a forumer and that i would be delighted to have the opportunity to meet you one day around tea to remake the world!

I'm just saying my opinion.

there are other ways to show joy with one or two hands that are less controversial. and I don't believe that Musk, an experienced businessman and obviously used to speaking to huge audiences, had a little stage fright that he wouldn't have been able to manage. otherwise he would not have made this gesture a second time. I think this gesture was calculated to cause controversy.

Besides, the “joyful” context is not an excuse. in 1933, in 1936, this famous outstretched right arm was there to accompany and rally people indoctrinated by the ideology in F and that in N, and used in joyful contexts of propaganda events (Olympic Games for example).

I also think back to the French comedy "La 7ème Compagnie", where in 1940, a group of three French soldiers find themselves in possession of a German armored vehicle 'against their will' after accidentally shooting down the crew with a machine gun. at one point, the one who is the leader among the three French goes to get food from a grocer : but, unfortunately, the grocer in question is a collaborator and offers his food to wehrmarcht bikers to later refuses to give it to the Frenchman (who came with his French uniform). the three French decide to show up with the German armored vehicle to play a trick on the grocer : je offers them the food they want, and as they leave, the soldier Pithiviers (played by the actor Jean Lefebvre) decides to "teach" the grocer to make this famous salute. the comedy of this scene lies in the fact that the salute is voluntarily done backwards by Pithiviers (left arm) but the grocer does it with the right arm, first discreetly, then completely, which results in the demolition of his shop.

But Elon wasn't playing in a comedy film where he will make fun of this salute.

so yes, Musk could have put both hands to the heart (reinforcing the extent of his love towards the crowd) and then made a large half circle with his arms, showing that he is grateful to the entire audience. or make a heart with his hands, or a dab, which would have fit better given his image as a "geek".

but he preferred to do something else.

Something I strongly criticize

@Noflaps I reiterate once again that I respect you as a forumer and that i would be delighted to have the opportunity to meet you one day around tea to remake the world! I'm just saying my opinion. there are other ways to show joy with one or two hands that are less controversial. and I don't believe that Musk, an experienced businessman and obviously used to speaking to huge audiences, had a little stage fright that he wouldn't have been able to manage. otherwise he would not have made this gesture a second time. I think this gesture was calculated to cause controversy. Besides, the “joyful” context is not an excuse. in 1933, in 1936, this famous outstretched right arm was there to accompany and rally people indoctrinated by the ideology in F and that in N, and used in joyful contexts of propaganda events (Olympic Games for example). I also think back to the French comedy "La 7ème Compagnie", where in 1940, a group of three French soldiers find themselves in possession of a German armored vehicle 'against their will' after accidentally shooting down the crew with a machine gun. at one point, the one who is the leader among the three French goes to get food from a grocer : but, unfortunately, the grocer in question is a collaborator and offers his food to wehrmarcht bikers to later refuses to give it to the Frenchman (who came with his French uniform). the three French decide to show up with the German armored vehicle to play a trick on the grocer : je offers them the food they want, and as they leave, the soldier Pithiviers (played by the actor Jean Lefebvre) decides to "teach" the grocer to make this famous salute. the comedy of this scene lies in the fact that the salute is voluntarily done backwards by Pithiviers (left arm) but the grocer does it with the right arm, first discreetly, then completely, which results in the demolition of his shop. But Elon wasn't playing in a comedy film where he will make fun of this salute. so yes, Musk could have put both hands to the heart (reinforcing the extent of his love towards the crowd) and then made a large half circle with his arms, showing that he is grateful to the entire audience. or make a heart with his hands, or a dab, which would have fit better given his image as a "geek". but he preferred to do something else. Something I strongly criticize
#13

In #8, @Raspberry_yoghurt writes:

"There is no rule that says "if you say xyz" and then do a Nazi salute then it isn't a Nazi salute.

So that is irrelevant."

Please read that again, carefully. It is astonishing.

What a man actually says when he does something is necessarily "irrelevant" ? Seriously?

Nonsense.

If someone extends his or her arm to full length on a corner in New York City and shouts "HEY, TAXI! TAXI" you think we are free to assume that the extension is a "Nazi salute" and the word "taxi!" is irrelevant to make that determination? Really?

Should the taxi driver pass on by, completing ignoring the words "HEY, TAXI! TAXI!" because (after all) a man's words are "irrelevant" and taxis shouldn't pick up a man using his arm in such a fashion?

Imagine a lawyer in a courtroom trying to object to the "relevance" of what a man ACTUALLY SAID as he acts in some way that is at issue. "I object, your honor, irrelevant! There is no rule that says we have to consider that the defendant yelled, "look out! There's a rattlesnake! As the defendant grabbed the plaintiff and pulled him backwards five feet on the path!"

Sorry, @Raspberry, it is UTTERLY relevant that Musk said "MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU" to explain WHY HE TOUCHED HIS HEART and THEN extended his arm OUTWARD.

If he touched his KIDNEYS it might not be relevant. But he touched HIS HEART. And said "MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU."

Does that REALLY seem like a coincidence? Seriously? So far as I know, he does NOT have Tourette's syndrome.

Have you gone back and looked at Hitler's behavior on video? Do you claim that he always "touched his heart" first when doing his stupid salute? Really?

Sometimes we have to figure out when many in the media are simply and obviously wrong -- and not just go lock step along with a political crowd because they agree with us politically.

Do you realize how many anti-Trump American politicians have been photographed with their arms extended outward and upwards in public? lol. Probably not. Some media sources wouldn't begin to show you. Do I think that they were giving a "Nazi salute" ? OF COURSE NOT.

Before we accuse somebody else of something ATTROCIOUS we should consider all the evidence and not just stick fingers in ears and pretend that a man's own words have nothing to do with his intentions.

Musk's cheerful, grateful, happy words MATCH HIS ACTIONS PERFECTLY. His hand WENT OUT from HIS HEART. He said, ON THAT VERY STAGE, IMMEDIATELY, that "His HEART" "GOES OUT" to the crowd in thanking them for the ELECTION RESULT.

He was saying NOTHING about Nazis. NOBODY else that came to the stage that day was speaking to that crowd about Nazis, either. The occasion had NOTHING to do with Nazis. It was a joyous victory celebration. People were happy on that occasion, not filled with stupid, bitter hatred.

We must be careful not to be ostriches and bury our heads in media sand. Has anybody found the "pee tapes" yet? OF COURSE NOT.

It's time for politics to return to fairness and rational debate and avoid hysterical personal attack.

I believe most have become SICK of relentless personal attack in politics. That was partially reflected in the last US election. After all, the more Trump was ridiculously and unrelentingly attacked, the higher his approval rose.

But bad habits die hard. And we still seem some silly, angry positions being taken by too many.

In #8, @Raspberry_yoghurt writes: "There is no rule that says "if you say xyz" and then do a Nazi salute then it isn't a Nazi salute. So that is irrelevant." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please read that again, carefully. It is astonishing. What a man actually says when he does something is necessarily "irrelevant" ? Seriously? Nonsense. If someone extends his or her arm to full length on a corner in New York City and shouts "HEY, TAXI! TAXI" you think we are free to assume that the extension is a "Nazi salute" and the word "taxi!" is irrelevant to make that determination? Really? Should the taxi driver pass on by, completing ignoring the words "HEY, TAXI! TAXI!" because (after all) a man's words are "irrelevant" and taxis shouldn't pick up a man using his arm in such a fashion? Imagine a lawyer in a courtroom trying to object to the "relevance" of what a man ACTUALLY SAID as he acts in some way that is at issue. "I object, your honor, irrelevant! There is no rule that says we have to consider that the defendant yelled, "look out! There's a rattlesnake! As the defendant grabbed the plaintiff and pulled him backwards five feet on the path!" Sorry, @Raspberry, it is UTTERLY relevant that Musk said "MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU" to explain WHY HE TOUCHED HIS HEART and THEN extended his arm OUTWARD. If he touched his KIDNEYS it might not be relevant. But he touched HIS HEART. And said "MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU." Does that REALLY seem like a coincidence? Seriously? So far as I know, he does NOT have Tourette's syndrome. Have you gone back and looked at Hitler's behavior on video? Do you claim that he always "touched his heart" first when doing his stupid salute? Really? Sometimes we have to figure out when many in the media are simply and obviously wrong -- and not just go lock step along with a political crowd because they agree with us politically. Do you realize how many anti-Trump American politicians have been photographed with their arms extended outward and upwards in public? lol. Probably not. Some media sources wouldn't begin to show you. Do I think that they were giving a "Nazi salute" ? OF COURSE NOT. Before we accuse somebody else of something ATTROCIOUS we should consider all the evidence and not just stick fingers in ears and pretend that a man's own words have nothing to do with his intentions. Musk's cheerful, grateful, happy words MATCH HIS ACTIONS PERFECTLY. His hand WENT OUT from HIS HEART. He said, ON THAT VERY STAGE, IMMEDIATELY, that "His HEART" "GOES OUT" to the crowd in thanking them for the ELECTION RESULT. He was saying NOTHING about Nazis. NOBODY else that came to the stage that day was speaking to that crowd about Nazis, either. The occasion had NOTHING to do with Nazis. It was a joyous victory celebration. People were happy on that occasion, not filled with stupid, bitter hatred. We must be careful not to be ostriches and bury our heads in media sand. Has anybody found the "pee tapes" yet? OF COURSE NOT. It's time for politics to return to fairness and rational debate and avoid hysterical personal attack. I believe most have become SICK of relentless personal attack in politics. That was partially reflected in the last US election. After all, the more Trump was ridiculously and unrelentingly attacked, the higher his approval rose. But bad habits die hard. And we still seem some silly, angry positions being taken by too many.
#14

Full context matters. If anyone can point out what's scary about this enthusiastic man or this ebullient audience, please do.

"My heart goes out to you."

https://youtu.be/cjr0tAafxxE?si=pdIAUSK4ipJMhKqo

Full context matters. If anyone can point out what's scary about this enthusiastic man or this ebullient audience, please do. "My heart goes out to you." https://youtu.be/cjr0tAafxxE?si=pdIAUSK4ipJMhKqo
#15

@zealandzen said it perfectly in just three words: FULL CONTEXT MATTERS.

And there was NOTHING about the context, which included his own words, to suggest, even remotely, that Musk was thinking of Nazis when he happily bounded around the stage expressing his happy gratitude.

With all due respect, @CSKA_Moscou , Musk's heart touch and then brief arm rise looked nothing like an extended, real Nazi salute.

I have seen photos of Trump-fighting, non-Republican politicians raising and extending their right arms, too, in other contexts. Do I try to claim that they are giving a "Nazi salute" when they do that? Of course not. Why not?

Because, as @zealandzen so succinctly wrote, "full context matters." And I take care NOT to accuse somebody of something horrible based on very, very scant evidence. I'd consider all the facts and circumstances before making such an accusation -- I would not just try to ignore them to reach a politically convenient position.

It might surprise you to know that long ago, around the beginning of the PRECEDING century and up until about 1942, many American children in the classroom would say the pledge of allegiance holding their right arms aloft. Neither they, nor anybody else in the classroom at the time, were thinking about Nazis. Indeed, for decades while that arm motion was used, the "Nazis" didn't even exist yet. No, many instead called the arm motion the "Bellamy salute." It was NOT REMOTELY a Nazi gesture.

We can't just jump on a political bandwagon and assume that Musk intended to honor Nazis. He quite obviously did not mean to do any such thing.

If it were up to me (and it clearly isn't) would I advise him to take care in future not to touch his heart and then raise his arm briefly in exuberant joy, even though a heart touch and arm raise does not REALLY look to me remotely like an actual Nazi salute? Sure, because I know how some media personalities will jump all over him at the slightest opportunity -- as they spent years jumping all over Trump.

Politics has gotten wacky. But you're not at all wacky -- you're a smart guy, @CSKA_Moscou , as we both know. So, I hope you will resist being persuaded by any who wish to jump to hasty conclusions having an apparently political motivation.

@zealandzen said it perfectly in just three words: FULL CONTEXT MATTERS. And there was NOTHING about the context, which included his own words, to suggest, even remotely, that Musk was thinking of Nazis when he happily bounded around the stage expressing his happy gratitude. With all due respect, @CSKA_Moscou , Musk's heart touch and then brief arm rise looked nothing like an extended, real Nazi salute. I have seen photos of Trump-fighting, non-Republican politicians raising and extending their right arms, too, in other contexts. Do I try to claim that they are giving a "Nazi salute" when they do that? Of course not. Why not? Because, as @zealandzen so succinctly wrote, "full context matters." And I take care NOT to accuse somebody of something horrible based on very, very scant evidence. I'd consider all the facts and circumstances before making such an accusation -- I would not just try to ignore them to reach a politically convenient position. It might surprise you to know that long ago, around the beginning of the PRECEDING century and up until about 1942, many American children in the classroom would say the pledge of allegiance holding their right arms aloft. Neither they, nor anybody else in the classroom at the time, were thinking about Nazis. Indeed, for decades while that arm motion was used, the "Nazis" didn't even exist yet. No, many instead called the arm motion the "Bellamy salute." It was NOT REMOTELY a Nazi gesture. We can't just jump on a political bandwagon and assume that Musk intended to honor Nazis. He quite obviously did not mean to do any such thing. If it were up to me (and it clearly isn't) would I advise him to take care in future not to touch his heart and then raise his arm briefly in exuberant joy, even though a heart touch and arm raise does not REALLY look to me remotely like an actual Nazi salute? Sure, because I know how some media personalities will jump all over him at the slightest opportunity -- as they spent years jumping all over Trump. Politics has gotten wacky. But you're not at all wacky -- you're a smart guy, @CSKA_Moscou , as we both know. So, I hope you will resist being persuaded by any who wish to jump to hasty conclusions having an apparently political motivation.
#17

Oh, for Pete's sake. This had already become an exasperating, silly topic more than a week ago.

When an American or British or Canadian or French or Russian soldier shot an attacking enemy soldier on the battlefield in world war II was it "murder," @what_game_is_this ?

CONTEXT MATTERS. FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES MATTER.

We can't just IGNORE facts and circumstances to satisfy ourselves politically. Does anybody really think that Musk would be widely disparaged for his gleeful behavior if he were an opponent of Trump instead of an ally?

If so, I'd better stock up my inventory of bridges for sale.

Oh, for Pete's sake. This had already become an exasperating, silly topic more than a week ago. When an American or British or Canadian or French or Russian soldier shot an attacking enemy soldier on the battlefield in world war II was it "murder," @what_game_is_this ? CONTEXT MATTERS. FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES MATTER. We can't just IGNORE facts and circumstances to satisfy ourselves politically. Does anybody really think that Musk would be widely disparaged for his gleeful behavior if he were an opponent of Trump instead of an ally? If so, I'd better stock up my inventory of bridges for sale.
#18

@botliquor4547 said in #11:

He should do it the same thing in Germany.

Why? you can get up to 3 years in prison for it in Germany.

@botliquor4547 said in #11: > He should do it the same thing in Germany. Why? you can get up to 3 years in prison for it in Germany.
#19

@Noflaps said in #13:

In #8, @Raspberry_yoghurt writes:

"There is no rule that says "if you say xyz" and then do a Nazi salute then it isn't a Nazi salute.

So that is irrelevant."

Please read that again, carefully. It is astonishing.

What a man actually says when he does something is necessarily "irrelevant" ? Seriously?

I didn't write that everything is irrelevant.

I wrote that the words you say before a Nzxi salute is irrelevant if you're a Nazi.

Nonsense.

If someone extends his or her arm to full length on a corner in New York City and shouts "HEY, TAXI! TAXI" you think we are free to assume that the extension is a "Nazi salute" and the word "taxi!" is irrelevant to make that determination? Really?

No, but that's not what Musk did.

Musk is a right wing extremist saluting a crowd with the Nazi salute during a speech which is what Nazis do.

If he touched his KIDNEYS it might not be relevant. But he touched HIS HEART. And said "MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU.

So what?

That's what a Nazi salute look like

https://preview.redd.it/1jwoo9q7goee1.gif?width=410&format=mp4&s=620a737c123737133555d555a75cded528d72e63

Does that REALLY seem like a coincidence? Seriously? So far as I know, he does NOT have Tourette's syndrome.

Have you gone back and looked at Hitler's behavior on video? Do you claim that he always "touched his heart" first when doing his stupid salute? Really?

IDK but it's normal that Nazis do it.

https://preview.redd.it/1jwoo9q7goee1.gif?width=410&format=mp4&s=620a737c123737133555d555a75cded528d72e63

Before we accuse somebody else of something ATTROCIOUS we should consider all the evidence and not just stick fingers in ears and pretend that a man's own words have nothing to do with his intentions.

Right haha, funny coming from you as I've posted a ton of evidence n this forum and yo've ignored it all.

No, we have to figur out why you don't want to talk about Musk spending so much effort

  • supporting right wing extremist parties in like 5 countries

  • promoting nazi and right wing extremist content on twitter

  • promoting nazi profiles on twitter

  • does nazi salutes

  • actually speinding quite a bit of his free time promoting right wing extremism and Nazis.

The likelihood of a person ding everything a nazi would do in his position is that he does it becaise he simply is a nazi.

Musk's cheerful, grateful, happy words MATCH HIS ACTIONS PERFECTLY. His hand WENT OUT from HIS HEART. He said, ON THAT VERY STAGE, IMMEDIATELY, that "His HEART" "GOES OUT" to the crowd in thanking them for the ELECTION RESULT.

Yes, nazis do Nazi salutes when they are happy and in front of a crowd they like.

@Noflaps said in #13: > In #8, @Raspberry_yoghurt writes: > > "There is no rule that says "if you say xyz" and then do a Nazi salute then it isn't a Nazi salute. > > So that is irrelevant." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Please read that again, carefully. It is astonishing. > > What a man actually says when he does something is necessarily "irrelevant" ? Seriously? I didn't write that everything is irrelevant. I wrote that the words you say before a Nzxi salute is irrelevant if you're a Nazi. > Nonsense. > > If someone extends his or her arm to full length on a corner in New York City and shouts "HEY, TAXI! TAXI" you think we are free to assume that the extension is a "Nazi salute" and the word "taxi!" is irrelevant to make that determination? Really? No, but that's not what Musk did. Musk is a right wing extremist saluting a crowd with the Nazi salute during a speech which is what Nazis do. > If he touched his KIDNEYS it might not be relevant. But he touched HIS HEART. And said "MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU. So what? That's what a Nazi salute look like https://preview.redd.it/1jwoo9q7goee1.gif?width=410&format=mp4&s=620a737c123737133555d555a75cded528d72e63 > Does that REALLY seem like a coincidence? Seriously? So far as I know, he does NOT have Tourette's syndrome. > > Have you gone back and looked at Hitler's behavior on video? Do you claim that he always "touched his heart" first when doing his stupid salute? Really? IDK but it's normal that Nazis do it. https://preview.redd.it/1jwoo9q7goee1.gif?width=410&format=mp4&s=620a737c123737133555d555a75cded528d72e63 > Before we accuse somebody else of something ATTROCIOUS we should consider all the evidence and not just stick fingers in ears and pretend that a man's own words have nothing to do with his intentions. Right haha, funny coming from you as I've posted a ton of evidence n this forum and yo've ignored it all. No, we have to figur out why you don't want to talk about Musk spending so much effort - supporting right wing extremist parties in like 5 countries - promoting nazi and right wing extremist content on twitter - promoting nazi profiles on twitter - does nazi salutes - actually speinding quite a bit of his free time promoting right wing extremism and Nazis. The likelihood of a person ding everything a nazi would do in his position is that he does it becaise he simply is a nazi. > Musk's cheerful, grateful, happy words MATCH HIS ACTIONS PERFECTLY. His hand WENT OUT from HIS HEART. He said, ON THAT VERY STAGE, IMMEDIATELY, that "His HEART" "GOES OUT" to the crowd in thanking them for the ELECTION RESULT. Yes, nazis do Nazi salutes when they are happy and in front of a crowd they like.
#20

@Noflaps said in #17:

CONTEXT MATTERS. FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES MATTER.

It's funnt how you can care about context but also not know it.

Probably it's because you don't actually care about the context but for some reason is juts saying random stuff to defend musk.

Here is the context:

MUSK HAS SPENT YEARS PROMOTING RIGHT WING EXTREMISM AND NAZISM

This is the context. The context is that Musk is a right wing extremist promoting people who like Nazi stuff.

@Noflaps said in #17: > > CONTEXT MATTERS. FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES MATTER. It's funnt how you can care about context but also not know it. Probably it's because you don't actually care about the context but for some reason is juts saying random stuff to defend musk. Here is the context: MUSK HAS SPENT YEARS PROMOTING RIGHT WING EXTREMISM AND NAZISM This is the context. The context is that Musk is a right wing extremist promoting people who like Nazi stuff.

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