Was World War 2 necessary? (Like Americans joining the war?)

@tpr said ^

"USSR was communist"

• No, it was the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics.

It was communist except the name, the name does not define a ideology, like China is not democratic even though it is literally named
the people republic

@tpr said ^

"People could always choose something else than Hitler."

• But the people chose Hitler and his promesse to make Germany great again.

But the people were manipulated, by his brilliant speeches, plus Hitler would have been a brilliant leader, if he hadn’t started the war, and wasn’t a genocidal megalomaniac, IE no person died due to his actions

It was completely necessary. Even if Pearl Harbor had not happened, america would have helped Britain at some point anyway.

@tpr said ^

"Fascism is the logical consequence of capitalism."

• No. Both in Italy and in Germany fascism resulted from socialism. Mussolini was a socialist at first.
  The National Socialist German Workers' Party has Socialist and Workers in its title.
  Hitler won the elections from the socialists and the communists because of the nationalist part: 'I will make Germany great again.'

I don’t know about Mussolini but the NDSAP/Nazi party had nothing to do with either Socialism or the workers. That was added onto the name to give it more credibility to the largest bloc of people, the workers. It’s a bit ridiculous that the communists voted for him as the regime turned out to be a far-right nationalist genocidal train wreck, blaming “Bolsheviks” for everything.

And yes, the US was right to join the war and should have. Without them it would have been very hard to defeat the Axis powers.

"But the people were manipulated, by his brilliant speeches"

• Communists to workers: vote for us, then a worldwide revolution of workers will end your suffering.
  Socialists to workers: the state will somehow provide for you to end your suffering.
  Hitler to workers: the state will end your suffering by ending reparation payments from the Versailles Treaty.
  His speeches were based on a deep felt injustice of the Versailles Treaty.

"Hitler would have been a brilliant leader, if he hadn’t started the war"

• Starting a war was his only way to fulfill his promesses.

"Mussolini"
His first names Benito, Amilcare, Andrea were from three socialists.

"the NDSAP/Nazi party had nothing to do with either Socialism or the workers"

• It had everything to do with the workers and with socialism, and with nationalism as well.
  For example the idea of a Volkswagen, a car each worker could buy is a socialist idea.
  Also the idea to give all unemployed a job is socialist.

"blaming “Bolsheviks” for everything"

• And Jews too, Bolsheviks like Lenin, Trotsky were Jewish.
  Hitler's narrative was that after the Brest-Litovsk Treaty with the Soviet Union, Germany would have defeated France, the United Kingdom and the United States on the Western Front, but that Jews and Bolsheviks put a dagger in their backs by surrendering.

"Without them it would have been very hard to defeat the Axis powers."

• With the United States the Second World War could have ended otherwise too.
  If Japan had bombed the dry docks at Pearl Harbor, if the Japanse had launched reconnaissance planes to find the United States aircraft carriers at Midway and had mounted the right ordnance bombs/torpedoes.

I like studying WWII so let me womansplain (is that a word?) a bit lol:

Germany's entry into WWII was almost exclusively caused by the Carthaginian peace imposed by the treaty of Versailles. It was also essentially inevitable due to the conditions imposed by that treaty. To suggest that capitalism was somehow the cause of hyperinflation is a little dishonest; how else exactly were they going to pay back that debt? A socialist economy would not have been anymore efficient. The only reason the socialist and later fascist Nazi party managed to fix the economy was because they threw the treaty out altogether so they were just focusing on their own country from then on. That's the appeal Hitler had. Many likely didn't fully agree with his rants on Jews, but they believed that they'd rather have a crazy maniac fix the price of bread than a reasonable guy do nothing. "They had a choice" and they indeed did, but let's not forget that many in the same place would have also migrated to the two extremes of the Nazis and the communists before Hitler's little framing of them caused everyone to start fully aligning themselves with the Nazis. After all, antisemitism had been around for a while; he simply pushed it a step farther.

Yes, it is well known that the colonies were essential to winning World War II. It is also well known they were treated like s--- after. Regarding colonies -- new imperialism roots can be linked to social Darwinism, the loss of slave labour, and even if you push back far enough it has ancestral ties to ideas like mercantlism. To suggest that capitalism is somehow the main cause of new imperialism is a bit of a stretch. Sure, it was the primary economic system of imperialist countries, but capitalism doesn't directly encourage or promote colonies. I'm not saying you can't criticize capitalism but trying to connect it like this is just odd.

Anybody who is saying US involvement in the war was unwarranted and hating on Americans for that is insane. Please remember the Holocaust, the Rape of Nanking, comfort women, massacres and genocides...by removing a massive military superpower and making sure the US would only send aid and supplies occasionally, all of these victims would have died in the millions more, and suffered countless more years. Russian winter isn't a substitute for America's armies. Yes, US involvement was absolutely needed, although many were upset we did not go earlier. Additionally, ignoring the fact that Pearl Harbor happened and we were acting in self-defense is odd too; Japan may be the underdog but at the beginning of World War II they were holding a huge empire and they could have proceeded to Californian coasts quite easily through naval ports in Monterey, San Diego, etc. So yeah, it was necessary to fight for sure, even with the massive human toll it took.

@greenteakitten said ^

I like studying WWII so let me womansplain (is that a word?) a bit lol:

Germany's entry into WWII was almost exclusively caused by the Carthaginian peace imposed by the treaty of Versailles. It was also essentially inevitable due to the conditions imposed by that treaty. To suggest that capitalism was somehow the cause of hyperinflation is a little dishonest; how else exactly were they going to pay back that debt? A socialist economy would not have been anymore efficient. The only reason the socialist and later fascist Nazi party managed to fix the economy was because they threw the treaty out altogether so they were just focusing on their own country from then on. That's the appeal Hitler had. Many likely didn't fully agree with his rants on Jews, but they believed that they'd rather have a crazy maniac fix the price of bread than a reasonable guy do nothing. "They had a choice" and they indeed did, but let's not forget that many in the same place would have also migrated to the two extremes of the Nazis and the communists before Hitler's little framing of them caused everyone to start fully aligning themselves with the Nazis. After all, antisemitism had been around for a while; he simply pushed it a step farther.

Yes, it is well known that the colonies were essential to winning World War II. It is also well known they were treated like s--- after. Regarding colonies -- new imperialism roots can be linked to social Darwinism, the loss of slave labour, and even if you push back far enough it has ancestral ties to ideas like mercantlism. To suggest that capitalism is somehow the main cause of new imperialism is a bit of a stretch. Sure, it was the primary economic system of imperialist countries, but capitalism doesn't directly encourage or promote colonies. I'm not saying you can't criticize capitalism but trying to connect it like this is just odd.

Anybody who is saying US involvement in the war was unwarranted and hating on Americans for that is insane. Please remember the Holocaust, the Rape of Nanking, comfort women, massacres and genocides...by removing a massive military superpower and making sure the US would only send aid and supplies occasionally, all of these victims would have died in the millions more, and suffered countless more years. Russian winter isn't a substitute for America's armies. Yes, US involvement was absolutely needed, although many were upset we did not go earlier. Additionally, ignoring the fact that Pearl Harbor happened and we were acting in self-defense is odd too; Japan may be the underdog but at the beginning of World War II they were holding a huge empire and they could have proceeded to Californian coasts quite easily through naval ports in Monterey, San Diego, etc. So yeah, it was necessary to fight for sure, even with the massive human toll it took.

It was not, the Holocaust, et cetera, I don’t want to use the r word, but remember the genocide is committed by the allies, the Bengal famine, the bombing of Dresden, fire bombing of innocent civilians in Woodhouse s, arrest of innocent Japanese civilians, and the nuke of nagasaki, as it was unnecessary

Everybody is with the allied narrative, but I must mention the atrocities as well.

@Rage698 said ^

Absolutely not! Germany and Russia were pounding each other to dust in East Europe. At the battle of Stalingrad for example, casualties were at over 1 million. Why interfere? A Nazi government fighting a Communist Government. Perfect.

Although I am very critical of the British, you are even more idiotic than them, you are literally saying that the US wantedthe holocaust to go on, the USA would be decimated, as the land of the free which would have been destroyed earlier, as the geopolitical Police us role did not do anything.

Ok, first of all, this post doesn't even make sense. Now, you say that the US wanted the holocaust to go on, well, technically, the US knew all about the holocaust for years and never did anything. You also say that the US would be decimated, what are you talking about!? The US was (and still is) the most powerful nation in the world. Please make your sentences a little more understandable.