in "real life" correspondence, "conditional moves" have always existed...
premoves are a well accepted part of internet chess, and arguably what makes playing bullet at an "acceptable" level possible.
i'd say that premoves only don't exist in physical games because of the physical impossibility of it (but in OTB blitz some people still move their piece before you hit the clock).
if it bothers you so much, you should pick time controls where the effect of flagging (and thus of premoving) is minimized, like games with increment.. even OTB blitz is moving in that direction as digital clocks gain popularity.
i have no idea where you get this idea that "premove is not chess" from.. you're fighting a lost cause, my friend.
in "real life" correspondence, "conditional moves" have always existed...
premoves are a well accepted part of internet chess, and arguably what makes playing bullet at an "acceptable" level possible.
i'd say that premoves only don't exist in physical games because of the physical impossibility of it (but in OTB blitz some people still move their piece before you hit the clock).
if it bothers you so much, you should pick time controls where the effect of flagging (and thus of premoving) is minimized, like games with increment.. even OTB blitz is moving in that direction as digital clocks gain popularity.
i have no idea where you get this idea that "premove is not chess" from.. you're fighting a lost cause, my friend.
Hi Lightsss, thanks for your answer. Imagine telling Capablanca, Alekhine or Karpov to premove! Again, if I could replicate any game throughout history with "premoving" annotated inside, I would withdraw the point, but it is not and will never be the case. If we were face to face, how could anyone "premove" with a clock on our right? No way. We will not agree on this issue, but I think that Lichess should give an option -as time, or colour- where anyone could state before the game starts if he or she wants or not to "premove". THAT would be fair. Thanks.
Hi Lightsss, thanks for your answer. Imagine telling Capablanca, Alekhine or Karpov to premove! Again, if I could replicate any game throughout history with "premoving" annotated inside, I would withdraw the point, but it is not and will never be the case. If we were face to face, how could anyone "premove" with a clock on our right? No way. We will not agree on this issue, but I think that Lichess should give an option -as time, or colour- where anyone could state before the game starts if he or she wants or not to "premove". THAT would be fair. Thanks.
And one last thing, as you said, "internet chess", yes, I agree, that's what we are playing with premoving, I want to play "chess through the internet". That's the difference.
And one last thing, as you said, "internet chess", yes, I agree, that's what we are playing with premoving, I want to play "chess through the internet". That's the difference.
In OTB chess, obviously, premoving is impossible, because there's only one physical chessboard; in online chess, it's possible because each player has a local copy of the current chessboard that's constantly updated through the chess server. In that way, yes, online chess that features premoving is different from traditional OTB chess.
However, premoving, I say, is simply an extension of OTB preparation. High-level play everywhere has contained instances where individuals make moves immediately after the opponent moves because they've already analyzed the sequence, whether as a part of opening preparation or because they had the time to analyze and calculate a line fully while the opponent thought. If we asked those players whether premoving was a wholly different concept than their preparation, they would say no; indeed, I believe they would welcome premoving, because it simply rids them of the second or two it takes them to make their pre-prepared move anyways. Thus, I don't think that premoving makes online chess fundamentally different from traditional chess; it's simply another tool of convenience provided to us by modern computing.
In OTB chess, obviously, premoving is impossible, because there's only one physical chessboard; in online chess, it's possible because each player has a local copy of the current chessboard that's constantly updated through the chess server. In that way, yes, online chess that features premoving is different from traditional OTB chess.
However, premoving, I say, is simply an extension of OTB preparation. High-level play everywhere has contained instances where individuals make moves immediately after the opponent moves because they've already analyzed the sequence, whether as a part of opening preparation or because they had the time to analyze and calculate a line fully while the opponent thought. If we asked those players whether premoving was a wholly different concept than their preparation, they would say no; indeed, I believe they would welcome premoving, because it simply rids them of the second or two it takes them to make their pre-prepared move anyways. Thus, I don't think that premoving makes online chess fundamentally different from traditional chess; it's simply another tool of convenience provided to us by modern computing.
Krolp, imagine one player (OTB) premoving 6 moves in front of his/her opponent, impossible, as you say! You could premove mentally even 6, 7, 9, or 10 moves in advance, even more (the GM), but chess is supposed to be played as it was created, despite the available technology at our disposal. Again, this is internet chess, not chess through the internet!
Krolp, imagine one player (OTB) premoving 6 moves in front of his/her opponent, impossible, as you say! You could premove mentally even 6, 7, 9, or 10 moves in advance, even more (the GM), but chess is supposed to be played as it was created, despite the available technology at our disposal. Again, this is internet chess, not chess through the internet!
"chess is supposed to be played as it was created"
I mean, chess itself has changed throughout history - en passant, the queen's powerful abilities, the bishop's move, castling, promotion - and there really is no consensus other than the popular consensus. To remove a feature that has not really created any public outrage over its existence makes little sense. Once again, premoving really doesn't alter the outcome of chess games nor its fundamental mechanics.
However, I think then, if popular consensus is the method of choosing whether a mechanism can be used, the idea of allowing players to choose whether premoving is allowed or not is perfectly fine. I don't think there's a strong enough case to unilaterally remove it, but to make its inclusion a choice makes total sense, since it doesn't really change the game and is only really affected by personal preference. You could totally petition lichess's team over in the "Lichess Feedback" forum about this.
"chess is supposed to be played as it was created"
I mean, chess itself has changed throughout history - en passant, the queen's powerful abilities, the bishop's move, castling, promotion - and there really is no consensus other than the popular consensus. To remove a feature that has not really created any public outrage over its existence makes little sense. Once again, premoving really doesn't alter the outcome of chess games nor its fundamental mechanics.
However, I think then, if popular consensus is the method of choosing whether a mechanism can be used, the idea of allowing players to choose whether premoving is allowed or not is perfectly fine. I don't think there's a strong enough case to unilaterally remove it, but to make its inclusion a choice makes total sense, since it doesn't really change the game and is only really affected by personal preference. You could totally petition lichess's team over in the "Lichess Feedback" forum about this.
Finally we can agree! Thanks for the idea! Best regards!
Finally we can agree! Thanks for the idea! Best regards!