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I'm Ukrainian, give me a question.

@tpr said ^

"it is better to put them in silos or submarines"

  • Silos are now abandoned, as they are too easy to strike.
    Nevertheless Russia has put nuclear missiles in Kaliningrad and Belarus, closer to NATO countries.
    They can destroy Berlin, Paris, and London in 400 seconds.
    That leaves less time to detect and intercept, than if launched from Siberia.

Has NATO put any missiles on the NATO border to Russia like in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland? This is what you claim happened. Has it happeened?

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/mnIc2ZCE) > "it is better to put them in silos or submarines" > * Silos are now abandoned, as they are too easy to strike. > Nevertheless Russia has put nuclear missiles in Kaliningrad and Belarus, closer to NATO countries. > They can destroy Berlin, Paris, and London in 400 seconds. > That leaves less time to detect and intercept, than if launched from Siberia. Has NATO put any missiles on the NATO border to Russia like in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland? This is what you claim happened. Has it happeened?

Your logic must be that Russia thinks "In 1999 when we got a border to NATO they put missiles on the border. And also in 2002 when Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania joined NATO they put missiles there. So if Ukraine also joins it becomes bigger"-

But has this happened?

Your logic must be that Russia thinks "In 1999 when we got a border to NATO they put missiles on the border. And also in 2002 when Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania joined NATO they put missiles there. So if Ukraine also joins it becomes bigger"- But has this happened?

"Has NATO put any missiles on the NATO border"

  • NATO had once put missiles in Turkey close to the USSR.
    Likewise the USSR had put missiles on Cuba close to the USA.

"This is what you claim"

  • That is not my claim.

"Your logic"

  • That is not my logic.

Ukraine will never join NATO as all 32 NATO members would need to agree.
The conflict in Ukraine is not about NATO, it is about Crimea and Russian minorities in Crimea and the Donbas.
One third of the population of Kharkiv is Russian.

"Has NATO put any missiles on the NATO border" * NATO had once put missiles in Turkey close to the USSR. Likewise the USSR had put missiles on Cuba close to the USA. "This is what you claim" * That is not my claim. "Your logic" * That is not my logic. Ukraine will never join NATO as all 32 NATO members would need to agree. The conflict in Ukraine is not about NATO, it is about Crimea and Russian minorities in Crimea and the Donbas. One third of the population of Kharkiv is Russian.

@tpr said ^

"Has NATO put any missiles on the NATO border"

  • NATO had once put missiles in Turkey close to the USSR.

I asked about the Polish border.

Did NATO put missiles on the Polish border in 1999 when Poland became a NATO member?

Likewise the USSR had put missiles on Cuba close to the USA.

That was in 1962. That is a long time ago.

Do you think missile technology has improved since 1962?

"This is what you claim"

  • That is not my claim.

But you claim it was a problem for Russia to get a border with NATO.

So I am asking you what is your opinion on what happend when Russia got a botder with NATO in 1999?

You must have an opinion about that, because you think it is something dangerous for Russia. So what happened?

"Your logic"

  • That is not my logic.

Ok what is your logic then about Russia having a border to NATO?

Do you think NATO put missles on the border of not?

if they didn't why would it be different if Ukraine jouned?

Ukraine will never join NATO as all 32 NATO members would need to agree.

I answered this already. USA maybe is leaving,

or NATO will not exist in a few years, and EU will acccept Ukaine in the European defense alliance, whatever it will be called.

The conflict in Ukraine is not about NATO,

You saidy yourself Russia was afraid of getting a border with NATO, despite Russia having had already a border with NATO for 15 years.

it is about Crimea and Russian minorities in Crimea and the Donbas.

One third of the population of Kharkiv is Russian.

It is not, Russia doesn't care at all for them.

They were living fine before, now they're getting bombed and destroued in a terrible war. Obviously their lives have not improved.

Russia also is forcing males from those areas to join the war.

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/5Ra7TbbA) > "Has NATO put any missiles on the NATO border" > * NATO had once put missiles in Turkey close to the USSR. I asked about the Polish border. Did NATO put missiles on the Polish border in 1999 when Poland became a NATO member? > Likewise the USSR had put missiles on Cuba close to the USA. That was in 1962. That is a long time ago. Do you think missile technology has improved since 1962? > "This is what you claim" > * That is not my claim. But you claim it was a problem for Russia to get a border with NATO. So I am asking you what is your opinion on what happend when Russia got a botder with NATO in 1999? You must have an opinion about that, because you think it is something dangerous for Russia. So what happened? > "Your logic" > * That is not my logic. Ok what is your logic then about Russia having a border to NATO? Do you think NATO put missles on the border of not? if they didn't why would it be different if Ukraine jouned? > Ukraine will never join NATO as all 32 NATO members would need to agree. I answered this already. USA maybe is leaving, or NATO will not exist in a few years, and EU will acccept Ukaine in the European defense alliance, whatever it will be called. > The conflict in Ukraine is not about NATO, You saidy yourself Russia was afraid of getting a border with NATO, despite Russia having had already a border with NATO for 15 years. it is about Crimea and Russian minorities in Crimea and the Donbas. > One third of the population of Kharkiv is Russian. It is not, Russia doesn't care at all for them. They were living fine before, now they're getting bombed and destroued in a terrible war. Obviously their lives have not improved. Russia also is forcing males from those areas to join the war.

"But you claim it was a problem for Russia to get a border with NATO."

  • Not my claim, the border or NATO are irrelevant.
    The conflict is about the importance of Crimea and the Russian minority in Ukraine.

"They were living fine before, now they're getting bombed and destroued in a terrible war."

  • Yes, the war is bad. The tension since 1991 should have been resolved by negotiations long before.
    Ukraine had better given back Crimea to either Russia or Turkey in 1991.

"Russia also is forcing males from those areas to join the war."

  • Yes, Caesar and Napoleon did the same.
"But you claim it was a problem for Russia to get a border with NATO." * Not my claim, the border or NATO are irrelevant. The conflict is about the importance of Crimea and the Russian minority in Ukraine. "They were living fine before, now they're getting bombed and destroued in a terrible war." * Yes, the war is bad. The tension since 1991 should have been resolved by negotiations long before. Ukraine had better given back Crimea to either Russia or Turkey in 1991. "Russia also is forcing males from those areas to join the war." * Yes, Caesar and Napoleon did the same.

@tpr said ^

"But you claim it was a problem for Russia to get a border with NATO."

  • Not my claim, the border or NATO are irrelevant.

You supported that claim and did not seem to think it was a false claim?

The reality of it is that Russia knows very well it does not matter at all if it gets another border to NATO or not. it was a lie sent out to make naive people thiink Russia was right in doing the war.

The conflict is about the importance of Crimea and the Russian minority in Ukraine.

"They were living fine before, now they're getting bombed and destroued in a terrible war."

  • Yes, the war is bad. The tension since 1991 should have been resolved by negotiations long before.

There was no tension that needed negotiations.

Ukraine had better given back Crimea to either Russia or Turkey in 1991.

Crimea votes to be part of indeåendant Ukraine in 1991. So since they vote to be part of Ukraine doesn't make any sense AT ALL to kick them out of the country?

"Russia also is forcing males from those areas to join the war."

  • Yes, Caesar and Napoleon did the same.

Yes anc Caesar or Napoleon did not care about those people.

So we agree now, Russia does not care about the people in Donbas and Crimea and also this part of your argument is incorrect.

@tpr said [^](/forum/redirect/post/DVJ3wf9S) > "But you claim it was a problem for Russia to get a border with NATO." > * Not my claim, the border or NATO are irrelevant. You supported that claim and did not seem to think it was a false claim? The reality of it is that Russia knows very well it does not matter at all if it gets another border to NATO or not. it was a lie sent out to make naive people thiink Russia was right in doing the war. > The conflict is about the importance of Crimea and the Russian minority in Ukraine. > > "They were living fine before, now they're getting bombed and destroued in a terrible war." > * Yes, the war is bad. The tension since 1991 should have been resolved by negotiations long before. There was no tension that needed negotiations. > Ukraine had better given back Crimea to either Russia or Turkey in 1991. Crimea votes to be part of indeåendant Ukraine in 1991. So since they vote to be part of Ukraine doesn't make any sense AT ALL to kick them out of the country? > "Russia also is forcing males from those areas to join the war." > * Yes, Caesar and Napoleon did the same. Yes anc Caesar or Napoleon did not care about those people. So we agree now, Russia does not care about the people in Donbas and Crimea and also this part of your argument is incorrect.

@Voldstar said ^

"American war against Russia"?
there hasn't been US aid in a year. They have to rely on homemade and European weapons to defend themselves.

who do u think has been behind this? The EU does not take a shit without US permission. The US is still funding they just do it thru the EU. Look at US funds total and the EU total which is larger? Yes this is a war against Russia, and for all those who think this is so important please go to Ukraine and fight for them!

@Voldstar said [^](/forum/redirect/post/LYuagJgo) > "American war against Russia"? > there hasn't been US aid in a year. They have to rely on homemade and European weapons to defend themselves. who do u think has been behind this? The EU does not take a shit without US permission. The US is still funding they just do it thru the EU. Look at US funds total and the EU total which is larger? Yes this is a war against Russia, and for all those who think this is so important please go to Ukraine and fight for them!

@Voldstar said ^

Little countries have to learn to live with their larger neighbors, especially when they share so much

learn to live with invasion, eh? yep, that's what they're doing.

This war was only started, because of unrealistic expectations of Ukr and the Wests Siren song. Even after the war started, a deal was almost done, with Ukr able to join the EU but not NATO but then a fat English pm came over and told them to continue fighting. The longer this goes on the less Ukr and less Ukranians, but as Lindsey Graham says we will fight to the last Ukranian.

@Voldstar said [^](/forum/redirect/post/KqtmRSvX) > > Little countries have to learn to live with their larger neighbors, especially when they share so much > > learn to live with invasion, eh? yep, that's what they're doing. This war was only started, because of unrealistic expectations of Ukr and the Wests Siren song. Even after the war started, a deal was almost done, with Ukr able to join the EU but not NATO but then a fat English pm came over and told them to continue fighting. The longer this goes on the less Ukr and less Ukranians, but as Lindsey Graham says we will fight to the last Ukranian.

"You supported that claim"

  • No, I did not.

"it was a false claim?"

  • Indeed, NATO did not pose a threat to Russia, like Iran did not pose a threat to Israel, or even the USA.

"There was no tension that needed negotiations."

  • There were a lot of tensions. There was a succession of anti-Russian and pro-Russian presidents. There was a dispute about the price of Russian gas. There was a dispute about the Russian naval base on Crimea. There was a dispute about the Russian minority. There was an insurgence in the Donbas.
"You supported that claim" * No, I did not. "it was a false claim?" * Indeed, NATO did not pose a threat to Russia, like Iran did not pose a threat to Israel, or even the USA. "There was no tension that needed negotiations." * There were a lot of tensions. There was a succession of anti-Russian and pro-Russian presidents. There was a dispute about the price of Russian gas. There was a dispute about the Russian naval base on Crimea. There was a dispute about the Russian minority. There was an insurgence in the Donbas.