i do not think i have myself clear to you either there is more gasses inside a bubble than carbon dioxide and oxygen. there is nitrogen and nitrogen is what makes it expand and pop on earth but on earth the only reason it does not pop immediately is because the external air pressure and there is none of that in space so its going to pop immediately
i do not think i have myself clear to you either there is more gasses inside a bubble than carbon dioxide and oxygen. there is nitrogen and nitrogen is what makes it expand and pop on earth but on earth the only reason it does not pop immediately is because the external air pressure and there is none of that in space so its going to pop immediately
bubbles are clear
The type of gas isn't important for this discussion. Whether I pump a bubble full of oxygen or full of nitrogen or full of a mixture of both, what difference does that make?
The very same 5 pounds per square inch of internal pressure (or some other value of pressure, pick any you wish) could be obtained by pumping in ANY of those three possibilities. And it's not astronomy or really chemistry that is crucial for resolving this particular discussion.
The physical science disciplines like statics, dynamics and strength of materials are what's most pertinent here. Concepts like tensile strength. The film walls of a bubble DO have SOME strength. Soap bubbles and bubblegum bubbles are NOT relying ONLY upon external pressure to resist expansion.
It appears that I am not going to be able to convince you. That's okay. I've said what I can, and disagreement is not the end of the world or necessarily the end of good will.
And you are not alone in thinking as you do. Indeed, you can probably even get some teachers to agree with you, based upon my past recollections of school. But beware that not everyone who claims to understand, or genuinely believes that they do, actually does -- not even if he or she is a teacher or famous influencer or celebrity. Even if it's claimed on the lovely internet itself!
Indeed, realizing that has become a crucial understanding.
I wish you a fine evening!
The type of gas isn't important for this discussion. Whether I pump a bubble full of oxygen or full of nitrogen or full of a mixture of both, what difference does that make?
The very same 5 pounds per square inch of internal pressure (or some other value of pressure, pick any you wish) could be obtained by pumping in ANY of those three possibilities. And it's not astronomy or really chemistry that is crucial for resolving this particular discussion.
The physical science disciplines like statics, dynamics and strength of materials are what's most pertinent here. Concepts like tensile strength. The film walls of a bubble DO have SOME strength. Soap bubbles and bubblegum bubbles are NOT relying ONLY upon external pressure to resist expansion.
It appears that I am not going to be able to convince you. That's okay. I've said what I can, and disagreement is not the end of the world or necessarily the end of good will.
And you are not alone in thinking as you do. Indeed, you can probably even get some teachers to agree with you, based upon my past recollections of school. But beware that not everyone who claims to understand, or genuinely believes that they do, actually does -- not even if he or she is a teacher or famous influencer or celebrity. Even if it's claimed on the lovely internet itself!
Indeed, realizing that has become a crucial understanding.
I wish you a fine evening!
What exactly is this bubble made of?
Assuming a soap bubble would it not be instantly dessicated and fall apart before expansion.
Bubblegum,freezing and fracturing.
A molten metal,hmm...crystallization might be an issue.
In any such thought experiment it is necessary to define the parameters.
What exactly is this bubble made of?
Assuming a soap bubble would it not be instantly dessicated and fall apart before expansion.
Bubblegum,freezing and fracturing.
A molten metal,hmm...crystallization might be an issue.
In any such thought experiment it is necessary to define the parameters.
Honorable and noble @Dukedog:
The sort of bubble we are talking about is not a bubble formed by escaping gas in a swimming pool. It seems better that we don't think about such bubbles. Or know about them. Or swim into them, either accidentally or -- much more weirdly -- on purpose.
We ARE talking about the sort of bubbles that can be blown up by, say, puffing. Yes, like bubble gum bubbles. Or, even more weakly constituted, soap bubbles.
That sort of a bubble is not mere vapor. It is not simply a liquid. It is a film which has the crucial property of "surface tension."
Surface tension occurs as the walls of the bubble resist being pulled apart by internal pressure.
Now, can such a bubble be destroyed by extremes of heat or cold? No doubt. But the MERE ABSENCE OF EXTERNAL PRESSURE should not be enough, by itself, to automatically and inevitably destroy a bubble.
The walls of such bubbles do themselves have some (very weak) strength that can resist being torn by SOME (not necessarily large) internal pressure.
Like the walls of a spacecraft can resist being torn apart in a vacuum, although (obviously) the walls of a bubble are much, much, much weaker than the walls of a steel or aluminum spacecraft. But being "weak" doesn't necessarily require having ZERO strength.
Which is all I'm attempting to explain. Apparently with more perseverance than success.
Honorable and noble @Dukedog:
The sort of bubble we are talking about is not a bubble formed by escaping gas in a swimming pool. It seems better that we don't think about such bubbles. Or know about them. Or swim into them, either accidentally or -- much more weirdly -- on purpose.
We ARE talking about the sort of bubbles that can be blown up by, say, puffing. Yes, like bubble gum bubbles. Or, even more weakly constituted, soap bubbles.
That sort of a bubble is not mere vapor. It is not simply a liquid. It is a film which has the crucial property of "surface tension."
Surface tension occurs as the walls of the bubble resist being pulled apart by internal pressure.
Now, can such a bubble be destroyed by extremes of heat or cold? No doubt. But the MERE ABSENCE OF EXTERNAL PRESSURE should not be enough, by itself, to automatically and inevitably destroy a bubble.
The walls of such bubbles do themselves have some (very weak) strength that can resist being torn by SOME (not necessarily large) internal pressure.
Like the walls of a spacecraft can resist being torn apart in a vacuum, although (obviously) the walls of a bubble are much, much, much weaker than the walls of a steel or aluminum spacecraft. But being "weak" doesn't necessarily require having ZERO strength.
Which is all I'm attempting to explain. Apparently with more perseverance than success.
Perhaps @Xx_Cassidy_xX is considering the scenario in which a bubble existing on earth were immediately teleported into space. In that case, I think it should be fairly obvious to everyone that it would pop immediately. However, in the case mentioned in the title (in which the bubble were blown in space), I agree with @Noflaps that there is no reason it would pop if it is blown up in a controlled manner. Of course, if you are blowing it up with your mouth, you would be unable to control the pressure in your lungs and would thus be unable to blow it up in a controlled manner. This is if you were instantly teleported into space. If you were already in space for any longer than an instant, you would be unable to blow up a bubble at all since all the air in your lungs would have already escaped and you would be dead very soon if not already.
As @Dukedog mentions, there are other reasons that a bubble might pop other than pressure. However, the only way to lose heat in space is by radiation, so I imagine freezing wouldn't be a problem (at least for a while), and I see no reason it should dry out immediately either (although over time this could play a role). If it is close to the sun or another star or other source of heat, it is possible that might pop it eventually or even immediately if it is close enough. But if it is far enough away from any heat source, I imagine it might even last longer in space than on earth, since there is no significant gravity which would normally cause the liquid in the film of the bubble to pool towards the bottom, thus weakening the film near the top and eventually popping the bubble.
Perhaps @Xx_Cassidy_xX is considering the scenario in which a bubble existing on earth were immediately teleported into space. In that case, I think it should be fairly obvious to everyone that it would pop immediately. However, in the case mentioned in the title (in which the bubble were blown in space), I agree with @Noflaps that there is no reason it would pop if it is blown up in a controlled manner. Of course, if you are blowing it up with your mouth, you would be unable to control the pressure in your lungs and would thus be unable to blow it up in a controlled manner. This is if you were instantly teleported into space. If you were already in space for any longer than an instant, you would be unable to blow up a bubble at all since all the air in your lungs would have already escaped and you would be dead very soon if not already.
As @Dukedog mentions, there are other reasons that a bubble might pop other than pressure. However, the only way to lose heat in space is by radiation, so I imagine freezing wouldn't be a problem (at least for a while), and I see no reason it should dry out immediately either (although over time this could play a role). If it is close to the sun or another star or other source of heat, it is possible that might pop it eventually or even immediately if it is close enough. But if it is far enough away from any heat source, I imagine it might even last longer in space than on earth, since there is no significant gravity which would normally cause the liquid in the film of the bubble to pool towards the bottom, thus weakening the film near the top and eventually popping the bubble.
can you even make it expand to a bubble in the first place...that is a dynamic process which might not be possible given the minuscule allowed internal pressure of the bubble versus the presdure necessary to grow it and given the vulnerability of soapy water.
ping me when you don't understand something
can you even make it expand to a bubble in the first place...that is a dynamic process which might not be possible given the minuscule allowed internal pressure of the bubble versus the presdure necessary to grow it and given the vulnerability of soapy water.
ping me when you don't understand something
why is everyone so polite and typing in caps and paragraphs is this a debate??
why is everyone so polite and typing in caps and paragraphs is this a debate??
@DuMussDieUhrDruecken said in #17:
can you even make it expand to a bubble in the first place...that is a dynamic process which might not be possible given the minuscule allowed internal pressure of the bubble versus the presdure necessary to grow it and given the vulnerability of soapy water.
Interesting. I see your point, since before a bubble is blown (let's imagine it is a film on a bubble wand), the film would be thicker and thus require more pressure to start being blown up, just like how a balloon is harder to blow up at the beginning. Furthermore, in normal atmospheric pressure, the external pressure is acting on both sides of the film so would help you blow it up in the beginning, and oppose you more and more as you blew it up further. So the more you blow it up, the less pressure the film itself exerts, but the atmosphere exerts more pressure trying to force the air out. At least that's how it seems to me, I'm not sure if that is correct. If that is the case, these forces would sort of cancel each other out, but in space, you wouldn't have the atmospheric pressure, so it is possible that the required force to start blowing up the bubble is also sufficient to pop it. This seems quite counterintuitive, but we don't live in a vacuum, so our intuition hardly applies in space.
@DuMussDieUhrDruecken said in #17:
> can you even make it expand to a bubble in the first place...that is a dynamic process which might not be possible given the minuscule allowed internal pressure of the bubble versus the presdure necessary to grow it and given the vulnerability of soapy water.
Interesting. I see your point, since before a bubble is blown (let's imagine it is a film on a bubble wand), the film would be thicker and thus require more pressure to start being blown up, just like how a balloon is harder to blow up at the beginning. Furthermore, in normal atmospheric pressure, the external pressure is acting on both sides of the film so would help you blow it up in the beginning, and oppose you more and more as you blew it up further. So the more you blow it up, the less pressure the film itself exerts, but the atmosphere exerts more pressure trying to force the air out. At least that's how it seems to me, I'm not sure if that is correct. If that is the case, these forces would sort of cancel each other out, but in space, you wouldn't have the atmospheric pressure, so it is possible that the required force to start blowing up the bubble is also sufficient to pop it. This seems quite counterintuitive, but we don't live in a vacuum, so our intuition hardly applies in space.
Air pressure can be furnished as slowly as we wish, and only to the extent that we wish.
I have no doubt that some pressure and some speed of application would produce a bubble.
I actually think I could even manage the necessary level of control with my lungs and bubble gum -- EXCEPT (of course) that, as others rightly observe (more or less), standing outside in space without a pressurized space suit would not be, uh, healthy.
To say the least.
And as for the question "why is everyone being so polite...." I respond: because this is Lichess, where most members seem quite polite and otherwise delightful.
Air pressure can be furnished as slowly as we wish, and only to the extent that we wish.
I have no doubt that some pressure and some speed of application would produce a bubble.
I actually think I could even manage the necessary level of control with my lungs and bubble gum -- EXCEPT (of course) that, as others rightly observe (more or less), standing outside in space without a pressurized space suit would not be, uh, healthy.
To say the least.
And as for the question "why is everyone being so polite...." I respond: because this is Lichess, where most members seem quite polite and otherwise delightful.