@chummer Well when polluting industries are making billions you can't be angry at voters for not wanting to pay more for gas. Especially people with low incomes, that may need their car for their work. These people have no other choice. Big industries do.
Liberal, but not in the context most people use
Yeah, only in the context that has been used in this thread?
Hello, @En_Passant234.... "Why hate communism? "
I dont want you to hate it,loving or neglecting an ideology is a personal choice but why do I hate communism?
Because Of the dual standards of Karl Marx...
You talked about 1971, the government in 1971 was INC, Indira Gandhi was the then ruling prime minister and she was not communist undermining the fact that she wanted to over throw communist kerala government and further communism emphasises on no classes but that was not the case with her.... INC claims that it is a centrist party, but now its inclining a bit towards leftism.... This confusion of ideology in INC is the prime reason because of which major portion of educated class never casts vote in its favour....
Further Indira Gandhi wanted to turn Bangladesh into a democracy with well trained parliament...
"Communist russia helped" It helped us the same way we helped other countries during covid crisis and in world war 2...a communist country helped us doesnt mean that the whole country should turn communist.. Further just as someone said in this forum like china russia is no more communist....
Further communism is too much extreme...
Just take example of lenin.. He overthrew the government then what did he do? He himself started oppressive measures like extreme censorship, firing at protestors etc which was a stigma for those who thought that lenin would be different.. Then stalin was worse, his idea of collectivisation took many lives....
"U.S didnt help us for vaccine raw material"
Our relations with former U.S government were good, we gave them hydroxychloroquine, they were of the opinion that they will first serve themselves... But again there was/is not any effective shortage of vaccines in india...
Let me tell you the ground reality...
Visit cowin site and enter pin code of some locality and there will various sites where you can get yourself ejaculated with vaccine... My parents have just got themselves vaccinated.. I just dont know from where this shortage tirade popped up... You stated that kerala is most developed and literate state because of communism, then having many colleagues from kerala, I can confidently say that its atmosphere at present is not the best in the country, kerala is the one of the few states from where terrorists are originating in India and some so called literates of Kerala are recently caught by STF because they were in touch with ISIS and Mujahideen.... Further a post circulated during the crisis, not aware if you saw it... The post stated " Illiteracy is not the problem of India but the stupidity of literates is"... It only referred to the pandemic, and yes kerala accounts for most covid cases in the whole nation..
Your views will be admired...
@chronicalien said
> You talked about 1971, the government in 1971 was INC, Indira Gandhi was the then ruling prime minister and she was not communist .
I have actually seen this thing that you don't care to read full post .
I said that in 1971 when every democracy was against you . Literally at your door ready to blow you off . Then Ussr helped you .
Then you placed no counter argument to the fact that no country has developed from Democracy . It is by the rich and powerful so that they remain rich and powerful .
>2...a communist country helped us doesnt mean that the whole country should turn communist
Do you need to become a dog to love dogs , No
You can well be a human and not hate a dog .
>Further just as someone said in this forum like china russia is no more communist..
Russia is no longer much developed and China is a communist (whichever type) . Just has done better than your democracy .
"Literally at your door to blow you off" Extremely wacky the way in which you are portraying heroism of USSR.... The whole world knows that the Indo Soviet treaty did not mean a total commitment to every indian post...
Quoting what robert jackson wrote" The soviet continued its sympathetic gesture to pakistan till late 1971"....
In spite of USSR support, usa and china continued to provide ammunitions to pakistan, though in limited amount...
USSR support was great for us, Soviet navy dispatched two groups of cruisers and destroyers from vladivostok to stop us military ships and british aircraft carriers but again they knew that once india got power in asia then they will also be able to assert dominance, fearing which nixon tried to stop this all by supporting pakistan but eventually failed...
Carina wetering on page 69 of her book wrote " After the war, the U. S accepted the new balance of power and recognised india as a dominant player in south asia, the us immediately engaged in strengthening bilateral relations"
The same US which was against us started building good relations with us...
Russia helped us, I dont hate russians nor do I hate russia but i provided adequate reasons because of which i hate communism that is no longer in russia...
"China is a communist. Just has done better than your country"... China being a communist country is disputed, not everyone believes china to be communist but still arbitrarily if we accept it as the truth then what? Most of the countries are behind china and my nation is doing rapid growth, covid crippled my nation as it did with any other... China is doing better than most of us doesnt mean that nations should start adapting communism to develop, just take example of belgium, no other power sharing format will maintain such peace between french and dutch speakers...
"Russia is no longer much developed"
This made me laugh so hard, i mean everyone in this forum no matter against or in favour of communism will laugh on this...
@chronicalien
>After the war, the U. S accepted the new balance of power and recognised india as a dominant player in south asia, the us immediately engaged in strengthening bilateral relations"
The same US which was against us started building good relations with us...
Us accepted you as a dominant player and engaged in making good relations (smells selfish) . Do you know who stopped your country from making nuclear arms and put sanctions on you in 1998 when you outwittedly succesfully tested in Pokhran . On the other hand it was communist USSR who sold you every latest weapons you wanted .
Time and Again Us has cheated you , like every democracy . You helped Eu in Crisis but when you were struggling with your second wave ..." Germany a now democracy in a meeting of EU said that it is now tough for India to export us medicines at low cost . Let's search for someone else . "
Again here you failed to explain why no country ever developed with democracy . China who started with you is no.1 in almost every aspect . If not 1 then 2 and 3 atmost . Because developing and democracy don't go hand in hand .
@FC-in-the-UK
If my view is naive yours is full of unanswered questions and contradictions.
You begin by saying that voters can be led astray by matters not strictly related to a candidate’s party’s policies. In other words. Voters are so defective in judgement that they cannot be trusted to act in their own interests. What condescension!
Any party in power has to stick broadly to the schedule contained in their manifesto or they will be held to account. Despite your apparent distrust, the public are not stupid and allow for some flexibility in action when the circumstances change (i.e covid)
You say that “we should go to poll every so often”. This is precisely what we do now! Later you go on to say that every citizen should be involved in every important decision. Who decides which decision occupies that category? Are you advocating plebiscites/referendums for these particular cases? That is saying goodbye to parliamentary democracy as the alternatives are incompatible.
“The will of the people” is a phrase heavy with historical luggage. Commonly used by ruthless demagogues as a justification for the worst excesses of human behaviour in the pursuit of their ambitions for power and control over their wretched followers.
I concede that our system of government has many faults and is frustrating in many ways. The problem is all the other suggested alternatives would make things worse.
Sorry for accidentally pinging you @chummer! I meant to ping @FC-in-the-UK
I was brain dead when I wrote that post lol....
@Tae7
Most people agree that we need to cut our emissions, but Washington State voted down two separate referendums in the last five years to implement such a scheme. California and NY were considering their own carbon tax, but those measures stopped after the second defeat.
Macron ran as an environmentalist, and his carbon tax plan resulted in riots across the country.
I have said that voters need to hold politicians to uphold their countries agreements. If the economists on the left and right are saying carbon tax is the best and least distortionary way of reducing emissions, and the voters consistently oppose such a measure - who is to blame?
Edit: Just read your edit, @Tae7 - I was a bit confused, but will let my post stand. I do think too much of the public wants a painless solution to emissions that simply doesn't exist. It's that short-term mentality that has led us to our current predicament in the first place. I'm not a bright man, and whole heartedly believe when ideologically opposed experts agree then people should have a damned strong reason for marching in a different direction.
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