- Blind mode tutorial
lichess.org
Donate

Want to understand the mechanism of cheat detection

#1

Greetings all
I am Rohit Raghavan ,a Lichess player from India. (Id - rr19042003). On 17th April I played one of my known club player Shubham Kansal (id-ZenithZugzwang) in a classical match with time control of 30+10s. After 8th move of Black (mine), the game was aborted and server showed the message "Cheat Detected, Black won". On further clarification I found that my opponent was solving puzzles a bit earlier and engine evaluation was ON in another tab, before the start of the above mentioned game. I also discussed this with some members of my chess club for which they said that it is possible that some algorithm of the platform may have deemed his opening of other tab albeit mistakenly , as a fair play violation and handed him a game loss. Moreover I also found that the other tab was open but was not visited during the playing time of the above mentioned game.
In my personal experience, I have played with this setup multiple times accidently but platform has never gave this message to me before this incident.

In view of above I would Request you to review the game again and remove 'cheat-detected message' from that game if possible.
I can ensure to not breach any fair play rule in the future.
If not atleast please provide the reason of detection of such message, i.e., what circumstances actually triggered this alarm for the player?
Thanks & Regards
Rohit Raghavan
Game link:

https://lichess.org/Xotb4lOZSToB

Greetings all I am Rohit Raghavan ,a Lichess player from India. (Id - rr19042003). On 17th April I played one of my known club player Shubham Kansal (id-ZenithZugzwang) in a classical match with time control of 30+10s. After 8th move of Black (mine), the game was aborted and server showed the message "Cheat Detected, Black won". On further clarification I found that my opponent was solving puzzles a bit earlier and engine evaluation was ON in another tab, before the start of the above mentioned game. I also discussed this with some members of my chess club for which they said that it is possible that some algorithm of the platform may have deemed his opening of other tab albeit mistakenly , as a fair play violation and handed him a game loss. Moreover I also found that the other tab was open but was not visited during the playing time of the above mentioned game. In my personal experience, I have played with this setup multiple times accidently but platform has never gave this message to me before this incident. In view of above I would Request you to review the game again and remove 'cheat-detected message' from that game if possible. I can ensure to not breach any fair play rule in the future. If not atleast please provide the reason of detection of such message, i.e., what circumstances actually triggered this alarm for the player? Thanks & Regards Rohit Raghavan Game link: https://lichess.org/Xotb4lOZSToB
#2

There are ways they could circumvent it e.g.

  1. Before you start any game it can ask you to turn off any chess engines running on your machine (if detected). That would include any game you are watching with evaluations. So if, for example, I am watching Norway Chess later today with analysis on, and whilst waiting for a move I decide to go and play a quick game of blitz, I would be warned by the server to turn off evaluation of the game I am watching, even if my own game is going to be played with a totally different opening.

  2. In real FIDE chess there are certain things that can lead to a forfeit, and it happened to a player when a phone alarm went off, even though he was not using it to cheat. So think of this as the same - switch on an analysis engine and you lose, even if it is not in the same position as your game.

It might be better if the message read "engine detected" rather than "cheat detected". That would clearly be a "truth" - the engine was there, whereas there is no proof that the player was attempting to cheat.

There are ways they could circumvent it e.g. 1. Before you start any game it can ask you to turn off any chess engines running on your machine (if detected). That would include any game you are watching with evaluations. So if, for example, I am watching Norway Chess later today with analysis on, and whilst waiting for a move I decide to go and play a quick game of blitz, I would be warned by the server to turn off evaluation of the game I am watching, even if my own game is going to be played with a totally different opening. 2. In real FIDE chess there are certain things that can lead to a forfeit, and it happened to a player when a phone alarm went off, even though he was not using it to cheat. So think of this as the same - switch on an analysis engine and you lose, even if it is not in the same position as your game. It might be better if the message read "engine detected" rather than "cheat detected". That would clearly be a "truth" - the engine was there, whereas there is no proof that the player was attempting to cheat.
#3

I'm not competent enough to look at the source code, but I believe the "cheat detected" mechanism kicks in if the position being analysed by an engine has occurred in the current game. Whether there are limitations to this and what they are, I don't know - for example, if your game opened 1.e4, but is currently well advanced, and you have an engine analysis tab open with the position after 1.e4, it would be harsh to say "cheat detected", so the line ought to be drawn somewhere.

But earlpurple's advice above is good - it is very foolish to have any engine analysis running at all while you are playing.

I'm not competent enough to look at the source code, but I believe the "cheat detected" mechanism kicks in if the position being analysed by an engine has occurred in the current game. Whether there are limitations to this and what they are, I don't know - for example, if your game opened 1.e4, but is currently well advanced, and you have an engine analysis tab open with the position after 1.e4, it would be harsh to say "cheat detected", so the line ought to be drawn somewhere. But earlpurple's advice above is good - it is very foolish to have any engine analysis running at all while you are playing.
#4

@rr19042003 said in #1:

On further clarification I found that my opponent was solving puzzles a bit earlier and engine evaluation was ON in another tab, before the start of the above mentioned game.

that scenario would not trigger cheat detected.

also discussed this with some members of my chess club for which they said that it is possible that some algorithm of the platform may have deemed his opening of other tab albeit mistakenly

as above, that would not trigger cheat detected.

@earlpurple said in #2:

Before you start any game it can ask you to turn off any chess engines running on your machine (if detected).

lichess does more than that. when you start a game, it automatically turns off all engines running in other tabs.

It might be better if the message read "engine detected" rather than "cheat detected".

nah. cheat detected has almost no false positives. i have never seen a confirmed case of a false positive in the wild, it's hard to trigger a false positive on lichess.dev. it's not only some random engine.

@rr19042003 said in #1: > On further clarification I found that my opponent was solving puzzles a bit earlier and engine evaluation was ON in another tab, before the start of the above mentioned game. that scenario would *not* trigger cheat detected. > also discussed this with some members of my chess club for which they said that it is possible that some algorithm of the platform may have deemed his opening of other tab albeit mistakenly as above, that would not trigger cheat detected. @earlpurple said in #2: > Before you start any game it can ask you to turn off any chess engines running on your machine (if detected). lichess does more than that. when you start a game, it automatically turns off all engines running in other tabs. > It might be better if the message read "engine detected" rather than "cheat detected". nah. cheat detected has almost no false positives. i have never seen a confirmed case of a false positive in the wild, it's hard to trigger a false positive on lichess.dev. it's not only some random engine.
#5

@earlpurple i am going to correct you on the rule there with number 2.

11.3.2 During a game, a player is forbidden to have any electronic device not specifically approved by the arbiter in the playing venue.
11.3.2.2 If it is evident that a player has such a device on their person in the playing venue, the player shall lose the game. The opponent shall win. The regulations of an event may specify a different, less severe, penalty.

@rr19042003
If you have phone on you at all you loose unless the rules of the tournament say otherwise
liches will auto cheat detect when a similar position is being analyzed as your game.
So never analyze and play at the same time.

@earlpurple i am going to correct you on the rule there with number 2. 11.3.2 During a game, a player is forbidden to have any electronic device not specifically approved by the arbiter in the playing venue. 11.3.2.2 If it is evident that a player has such a device on their person in the playing venue, the player shall lose the game. The opponent shall win. The regulations of an event may specify a different, less severe, penalty. @rr19042003 If you have phone on you at all you loose unless the rules of the tournament say otherwise liches will auto cheat detect when a similar position is being analyzed as your game. So never analyze and play at the same time.
#6

The FIDE rules on having an electronic device on you while playing have changed over time and since the advent of mobile phones. I'm guessing earlpurple may have been referring to the 2008 incident when Nigel Short lost a game because his phone made a noise even though it was turned off. (Yes, really.) Back then, mobile phones could be kept on your person but not switched on.

The FIDE rules on having an electronic device on you while playing have changed over time and since the advent of mobile phones. I'm guessing earlpurple may have been referring to the 2008 incident when Nigel Short lost a game because his phone made a noise even though it was turned off. (Yes, really.) Back then, mobile phones could be kept on your person but not switched on.
#7

@rr19042003 said in #1:

Greetings all
I am Rohit Raghavan ,a Lichess player from India. (Id - rr19042003).

who asked

On 17th April I played one of my known club player Shubham Kansal (id-ZenithZugzwang) in a classical match with time control of 30+10s.

who asked

After 8th move of Black (mine), the game was aborted and server showed the message "Cheat Detected, Black won".

take a wild guess as to why

On further clarification I found that my opponent was solving puzzles a bit earlier and engine evaluation was ON in another tab, before the start of the above mentioned game.

did he make that cheap excuse or did you try to find one for him?

I also discussed this with some members of my chess club for which they said that it is possible that some algorithm of the platform may have deemed his opening of other tab albeit mistakenly, as a fair play violation and handed him a game loss.

Why do people never acknowledge the reliable mechanisms of a renowned chess site? Why do people think their friendships are more reliable than consistent anticheat detectors?

Moreover I also found that the other tab was open but was not visited during the playing time of the above mentioned game.

blablabla, lies

In my personal experience, I have played with this setup multiple times accidently but platform has never gave this message to me before this incident.

well, good job not cheating yourself?

In view of above I would Request you to review the game again and remove 'cheat-detected message' from that game if possible.

dream on ...

If not atleast please provide the reason of detection of such message, i.e., what circumstances actually triggered this alarm for the player?

The fact that he cheated. I've seen dozens of games aborted as "cheat detected" after eight moves (only rarely later). My clear conclusion is that cheat detection triggers at 8th move at the earliest, and that most players who were forfeited after 8 moves intended to cheat the whole game.

@rr19042003 said in #1: > Greetings all > I am Rohit Raghavan ,a Lichess player from India. (Id - rr19042003). who asked > On 17th April I played one of my known club player Shubham Kansal (id-ZenithZugzwang) in a classical match with time control of 30+10s. who asked > After 8th move of Black (mine), the game was aborted and server showed the message "Cheat Detected, Black won". take a wild guess as to why > On further clarification I found that my opponent was solving puzzles a bit earlier and engine evaluation was ON in another tab, before the start of the above mentioned game. did he make that cheap excuse or did you try to find one for him? > I also discussed this with some members of my chess club for which they said that it is possible that some algorithm of the platform may have deemed his opening of other tab albeit mistakenly, as a fair play violation and handed him a game loss. Why do people never acknowledge the reliable mechanisms of a renowned chess site? Why do people think their friendships are more reliable than consistent anticheat detectors? > Moreover I also found that the other tab was open but was not visited during the playing time of the above mentioned game. blablabla, lies > In my personal experience, I have played with this setup multiple times accidently but platform has never gave this message to me before this incident. well, good job not cheating yourself? > In view of above I would Request you to review the game again and remove 'cheat-detected message' from that game if possible. dream on ... > If not atleast please provide the reason of detection of such message, i.e., what circumstances actually triggered this alarm for the player? The fact that he cheated. I've seen dozens of games aborted as "cheat detected" after eight moves (only rarely later). My clear conclusion is that cheat detection triggers at 8th move at the earliest, and that most players who were forfeited after 8 moves intended to cheat the whole game.
#8

Well @Cedur216 I am not asking for your silly argument and questioning my ability or my friends ability. You should not at all comment without knowing about the person and their play pattern in detail. It is an accidental error on his part to keep puzzles tab on at another tab but this doesn’t prove that he has in anyway involved in cheating.
Also, any sensible player, if they want to cheat would do that in Middlegame, not in opening. Moreover rageful guys like u always find pleasure in toxicity so go on and blabber as much as u want

Well @Cedur216 I am not asking for your silly argument and questioning my ability or my friends ability. You should not at all comment without knowing about the person and their play pattern in detail. It is an accidental error on his part to keep puzzles tab on at another tab but this doesn’t prove that he has in anyway involved in cheating. Also, any sensible player, if they want to cheat would do that in Middlegame, not in opening. Moreover rageful guys like u always find pleasure in toxicity so go on and blabber as much as u want
#9

@earlpurple I agree with your first assessment but like chess.com doesn’t allow multiple tabs to open at the same time, I have never found that out with lichees
And also offline norms are ig irrelevant but okay thanks for suggestions

@earlpurple I agree with your first assessment but like chess.com doesn’t allow multiple tabs to open at the same time, I have never found that out with lichees And also offline norms are ig irrelevant but okay thanks for suggestions
#10

@glbert if that scenario doesn’t trigger cheat detected, then does it mean that
1.cheating has been committed by the player?
Or 2. The positions in tactical puzzle and actual game were similar and hence server detects cheating due to engine being ON..
I am just wanting to have this qualification.
I think that’s the only way to prove that the person is not completely at fault for this

@glbert if that scenario doesn’t trigger cheat detected, then does it mean that 1.cheating has been committed by the player? Or 2. The positions in tactical puzzle and actual game were similar and hence server detects cheating due to engine being ON.. I am just wanting to have this qualification. I think that’s the only way to prove that the person is not completely at fault for this

This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.