My problem with the Analysis/Study collapse/expand mechanism in Lichess

I am having difficulties understanding the concept of expand/collapse in Lichess analysis move list

LiChess Tools has something called bookmarks:

• https://siderite.dev/blog/lichess-tools---user-manual/#moveListOptions
• https://lichess.org/@/TotalNoob69/blog/full-repertoire-using-pgn-editor-explorer-practice-and-bookmarks/IMnry1xG
  They also collapse/expand variations, but the meaning is different.

Example: 1. e4 (1. d4 d5 2. c4 c5) 1... e5 2. f4 f5 A simple PGN with two variations: e4 and d4.

Lichess will show only one expand/collapse button on the e4 line and when pressing it to collapse, it will hide the d4 variation. For me this makes no sense. I infer that the purpose of the Lichess collapse is to hide the variations and show only the main branch, not actually to "collapse" the branch.

The bookmarks, when added to the e4 and d4 nodes, will hide all moves following the bookmarked node, so if you collapse e4 you will hide all move in the e4 line except the e4 node itself. Same for d4. Also, only bookmarks work for inline notation.

Lichess:
https://i.imgur.com/qfkUoq8.png
and after pressing the - button on the e4 node:
https://i.imgur.com/So3Ue1t.png

LiChess Tools bookmarks:
https://i.imgur.com/qhfHs0g.png
and after after pressing the - button on the e4 node bookmark
https://i.imgur.com/Kdwsw0I.png

It annoys me because with these two sets of collapse the PGN is ugly and unusable. Which version do you prefer? What would you use and find useful? I would very much like to use the Lichess native visuals for collapse/expand for bookmarks, but that actually just hides variations.

Help me out here, what do you think?

the concept behind expand/collapse in our move list is pretty simple. the button is always shown inline at the branch point. on mainline nodes in the standard view (we call this column view), the buttons are placed directly before the mainline sibling of any variation moves. on inline views and inside variations within the standard view, the button is displayed after the parent move. the layout governs which move the control is "attached to" in a visual sense, but in both cases, the controls occur at the branch point as you read moves left to right.

in lichess implementation, "collapse branch" means hide everything but the main child's line. it does not mean collapse the parent itself into a leaf node. that would be kind of confusing on the mainline, and i believe most usage of this function will occur there.

i was unaware of the bookmarks feature. sorry we borked it, but you know the drill by now.

I'm not sure exactly what they changed but it's affecting all kinds of Lichess tools features and I'm devestated

I can't force down variations anymore. when they are deeper branches..

I might have to try without LT first to isolate the lichess concept. I use bump up and bump down for LT but I still need a first pass "force variation" to get my planar tree (without parenthesis at all, never, ever more, once created, too recursive for my small brain, I like flat tree planar spread maximal). Don't worry if not readable, I can understand myself. :)

Anyhow. I really was dependent on the "force variation" which only worked through making mainline. but now with the button taking the place of the once FAT mainline node, and all variations becoming automatically forced, but only at the first branching point, deeper branching points do not allow me that tree shrub designer work I need to be able to think on a tree (which is not natural for me, so I need all the chances on my spatial thinking side).

Did I ramble too much? in short:

where is my cheese? (forced variation anywhere would be great but at least through first variation).

I understand now the op. In fatline mode, I agree that collapsing the whole bush and having no clue about what might be in there at all feels strange. I don't know what I would prefer though.

I use inline when exploring. Fatline for studies that have sizeable annotations. But inline allows me to have a better scope of all the branches... less scrolling around.

So I still have the inline problem that now I can't get rid anymore of the parentheses as before.

Actually, even with only on branch now, I can't force it down anymore. The function is there but it does nothing it still continues from the mainline. While before the mainline would stop at the node before the node I apply "force variation" onto. Which would put it down one CR line down...

Usually from a mainline which has a parenthesis, i can force variation on the node before the parenthesis, then using LT I can start bumping up and down and keep the real planar tree in that wall of text of the move list. (sometimes I need to push back up from deep in a bush to mainline etfc.. here is where i lose everyone, myself included. because ASCII is a pain, we need telepahty or graphical language, neither at hand right now).

we'll set totalnoob up with a way to disable our variation disclosure when LT is installed soon

@schlawg said in #2:

i was unaware of the bookmarks feature. sorry we borked it, but you know the drill by now.

Well, it's criminal you didn't know of it :D But no worries, it happens. I prefer to see actual functional evolution in Lichess and have to fix it than not see it.

@Jackypaper824 said in #3:

I'm not sure exactly what they changed but it's affecting all kinds of Lichess tools features and I'm devestated

Lol, contact me in private and tell me what's not working. I don't have time to test everything now.

... and that LOL is ironic. it's more of an OMG!, but manly

With dark picture background the buttons from lichess for collapse are barely visible. Did not know where to report that. Thanks op.

I also am not sure what purpose it serves yet. My experience with LT bookmarks was more intuitive. (although I have not used it in a long time, and would not be able to explain). Here, I am in a study by someone else, and the button just makes the whole tree invisible or brings it all back up. Is there a page of explanation?

@schlawg said in #6:

we'll set totalnoob up with a way to disable our variation disclosure when LT is installed soon

Is there an interaction. did I miss a post (I bet). I had it on all the time. So there is a point in testing the lichess feature without it? I am a bit addicted.