A student of mine was playing a game that was legally a draw. Opponent just waited a whole minute to time him out and it gave him the loss where it should be a draw for lack of winning material.
Game: https://lichess.org/1fKAKn2Y
TIA!
Does not seem a draw to me: there is a series of legal moves that leads to a checkmate of White’s king, and thus this is not a draw. Maybe I’m missing something or misunderstanding the rules?
I beleive so too, if white promotes to a bishop, then traps his king in the corner with the bishop next to him, then black will be able to checkmate white with the king.
This is a frequently discussed topic. As posters #2 and #3 are saying, the rule here at lichess is that if it is in any way possible for checkmate to occur, even if the losing side has to basically be the one to make it happen, then it's not a draw. I've gotten burned myself in this way, but now we all know. Take it as an opportunity for your student to get a better understanding of the 50 move rule (e.g., the late pawn move reset the move counter).
Btw. it's not just a lichess rule. It's an official chess rule by FIDE... (see https://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf , point 9.6).
However, IMHO the behaviour of Black is in some way disgusting... He intentionally avoided taking the White pawn to make plenty of unnecesary moves and win by time in a position that with normal game would be a dead draw (after beating the pawn).
@pgierech said in #5:
> Btw. it's not just a lichess rule. It's an official chess rule by FIDE... (see www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf , point 9.6).
>
> However, IMHO the behaviour of Black is in some way disgusting... He intentionally avoided taking the White pawn to make plenty of unnecesary moves and win by time in a position that with normal game would be a dead draw (after beating the pawn).
There is a FIDE HANDBOOK rule that also avoids players for exclusively playing for the time to run out like this:
10.2
If the player, having the move, has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a draw before his flag falls. He shall summon the arbiter and may stop the clocks. (See Article 6.12.b)
a.
If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.
This should technically be a draw because the player is just waiting for the time to run out instead of doing winning moves.
@Hott said in #2:
> Does not seem a draw to me: there is a series of legal moves that leads to a checkmate of White’s king, and thus this is not a draw. Maybe I’m missing something or misunderstanding the rules?
Yes, the player is not trying to do winning moves, just waiting for the time to run out. From the FIDE Handbook:
10.2. a.
If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.
You are right, Paulina, there exist also rule 10.2, but it is obviously not touching lichess.org games, where there are no arbiters...
Btw. the rule, even in case of arbiters presence in the tournament, it needs the player to initiate the arbiter's involvement (the player "shall summon the arbiter..."). And in the game your student as it seems even didn't propose a draw. So both played further. The other was quicker. Definitely a situation against the spirit of the game, but... legal in lichess.org.
If I were you I would suggest your student to remember about the draw proposition button ;-) And to not to take too seriously results of non-tournament games... The biggest gain from game on this level is neither a point, nor rating gain, but... experience :)
Buena suerte!
It's explained here. https://lichess.org/faq#timeout
The issue, as I understand it, is that a human arbiter can make a judgement on what "normal means" are, but Lichess can't, so the only solution is to look at the material held by each player and nothing else.
@Paulobac said in #1:
> A student of mine was playing a game that was legally a draw. Opponent just waited a whole minute to time him out and it gave him the loss where it should be a draw for lack of winning material.
>
> Game: lichess.org/1fKAKn2Y
>
> TIA!
legally it is a draw because the black king could have taken the pawn. as it is a rapid format game, I think that it is not fair play to have done that, given that there is a way of having a draw and that continuing to play without taking the pawn would lead to any way forever because of the knight. This is not the first time that I have asked that there is an automatic null in this type of position
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