Bug: Unable to Spectate Tournament games when blocked by a user

When a user blocks you, you're unable to watch their games during a tournament, even though tournament games are public by nature.

I discovered this issue while trying to watch a blocked user’s games during a Lichess arena tournament. Normally, tournament games are viewable by everyone, but in this case, access is denied with an error message saying "Resource Not found"

This seems unintended, as blocking typically limits direct interaction. Could this be reviewed or is it a feature? Still the error message is distracting as it crashes from the tournament page and sends me back to homepage

IMHO this feature is very questionable even outside of tournaments. What would IMHO make much more sense would be hiding chat comments of users you blocked from you (and maybe also omit their names from spectator list) but I don't see any reason why a blocked user shouldn't be allowed to watch a game. In a tournament it becomes quite absurd as you can even play against a user who blocked you so why should you be disallowed to watch their games?

The reality is that some users block others for all kind of weird reasons and the fact that someone blocked you does not mean you did anything wrong. Often it rather says a lot about the users who blocked than about the user who was blocked. Just few days ago there was a user who said that he/she blocks all opponents he/she loses against. Others block opponents who had "suspiciously high" accuracy or provisional rating. Therefore I strongly believe that blocking should prevent direct interaction but should not restrict what a blocked user is allowed to do otherwise. And I don't see any reason why a blocked user should be disallowed to spectate a live game. This IMHO only encourages the unfortunate practice of blocking users out of spite.

Because some users stalk and harass other users. Then when we mute the stalker they start watching every game of their stalking victim. We consider such obsessive behaviour to be another form of harassment.

When you report someone for bad communications it automatically blocks them making it so they can't creep on your games. The preventing blocked users from watching the games of users that chose to prevent interactions is intended.

@mkubecek said in #2:

IMHO this feature is very questionable even outside of tournaments. What would IMHO make much more sense would be hiding chat comments of users you blocked from you (and maybe also omit their names from spectator list) but I don't see any reason why a blocked user shouldn't be allowed to watch a game. In a tournament it becomes quite absurd as you can even play against a user who blocked you so why should you be disallowed to watch their games?

The reality is that some users block others for all kind of weird reasons and the fact that someone blocked you does not mean you did anything wrong. Often it rather says a lot about the users who blocked than about the user who was blocked. Just few days ago there was a user who said that he/she blocks all opponents he/she loses against. Others block opponents who had "suspiciously high" accuracy or provisional rating. Therefore I strongly believe that blocking should prevent direct interaction but should not restrict what a blocked user is allowed to do otherwise. And I don't see any reason why a blocked user should be disallowed to spectate a live game. This IMHO only encourages the unfortunate practice of blocking users out of spite.

@cormacobear said in #3:

Because some users stalk and harass other users. Then when we mute the stalker they start watching every game of their stalking victim. We consider such obsessive behaviour to be another form of harassment.

When you report someone for bad communications it automatically blocks them making it so they can't creep on your games. The preventing blocked users from watching the games of users that chose to prevent interactions is intended.

Having experienced this problem, I have to strongly agree with Cormac on this one. If someone who has been stalking or harassing you starts to watch all you games, that is also a form of harassment. I have also experienced such people waiting on pause in arenas and only joining when I am waiting for a pairing, so they are paired with me.

I would even go a step further to say that not all people you have blocked (because as mkubecek said, some people block excessively or for trivial reasons like losing a game or rating), but ALL users that have been sanctioned in some way by Lichess for sexual harassment or stalking (not just "routine" verbal abuse after a game for example) should be banned from ALL arenas, because they can just follow you there and play you repeatedly, which is very unpleasant if they are someone you wish to avoid for that reason.

On a quick count, and I am almost certainly missing some games, I have upwards of 180 arena games against people who have harassed and/or stalked me. This is 180 games too many in my book, and I have advocated in the past for this change.

As far as I am aware, it is still possible to be paired with stalkers and harassers in arenas.

@cormacobear said in #3:

Then when we mute the stalker they start watching every game of their stalking victim. We consider such obsessive behaviour to be another form of harassment.
Assuming my suggestion of hiding their comments in the chat (from the blocking user) and omitting their name in the spectator list (again, for the blocking user), what would be the harm from such "stalking" or "harrassment"? (Not that I'm really convinced it justifies such strong terms even as it is now.)

I really can't help seeing that way too often user A blocking user B indicates a problem on the side of A rather than B. And I really feel that giving users the power of deliberately restricting other people's activities on the site is not a good idea. Blocking the DM and hiding forum comments surely makes sense (though I would appreciate separating game blocking and communication blocking) but I fail to see what is so harmful about being able to spectate someone's game.

@QueenRosieMary said in #4:

As far as I am aware, it is still possible to be paired with stalkers and harassers in arenas.
AFAIK tournaments ignore blocks for the purpose of pairing because otherwise blocking could be abused to gain advantage and cherry pick one's opponents. I'm afraid there is no satisfying solution to this dilemma, we have to choose between two evils.

@mkubecek said in #6:

AFAIK tournaments ignore blocks for the purpose of pairing because otherwise blocking could be abused to gain advantage and cherry pick one's opponents. I'm afraid there is no satisfying solution to this dilemma, we have to choose between two evils.

I am not talking about avoiding pairings, I am requesting that confirmed perverts are banned from tournaments altogether, they can play in the lobby, and the block system will prevent contact with their victims.

I am arguing that a victim's right to not be forced to play her/his abuser (often many times) should trump that abuser's right to play in tournaments.

If they aren't in the arena, there is no pairing issue or abuse of the pairing system possible.

@QueenRosieMary said in #7:

I am not talking about avoiding pairings, I am requesting that confirmed perverts are banned from tournaments altogether, they can play in the lobby, and the block system will prevent contact with their victims.
But this is something different. I would agree that if someone is found to be guilty of such abusive behaviour (by moderators), it makes perfect sense to prevent them from entering tournaments (of both types), just like lichess already does for those marked for cheating or rating manipulation. What I object to is the idea of giving every single user of the site the power to restrict other users' activities on a whim.

@mkubecek said in #8:

But this is something different. I would agree that if someone is found to be guilty of such abusive behaviour (by moderators), it makes perfect sense to prevent them from entering tournaments (of both types), just like lichess already does for those marked for cheating or rating manipulation. What I object to is the idea of giving every single user of the site the power to restrict other users' activities on a whim.

I think we largely agree then. I think for just "normal" blocked users, like if they were spamming your inbox or being rude or whatever, there is no need for tournament restrictions.

It makes perfect sense to me too, to prevent tournament entry in these, more serious and confirmed cases, and yet it still happens.

The prevention of spectating function is needed I think, for the reasons Cormac explained, and like you say, with every solution there is some sort of compromise.

@Anthonyoja said in #1:

When a user blocks you, you're unable to watch their games during a tournament, even though tournament games are public by nature.

I discovered this issue while trying to watch a blocked user’s games during a Lichess arena tournament. Normally, tournament games are viewable by everyone, but in this case, access is denied with an error message saying "Resource Not found"

This seems unintended, as blocking typically limits direct interaction. Could this be reviewed or is it a feature? Still the error message is distracting as it crashes from the tournament page and sends me back to homepage

Just log out and view their game.