lichess.org

Questions regarding possible cheating and perfect games

@Tkc74 I find the behavior puzzling and have to agree with you that it seems triggered (that is, reactionary and not entirely rational).

Is there too much worry about cheating going on, particularly among less experienced players? Yes, probably.

Is cheating a serious problem in the online chess community in 2019? Yes, absolutely.

Shaming or insulting players who want to discuss the problem of cheating is out of line; even worse is this new trend I seem to be witnessing, where some are claiming that discussing cheating is worse than cheating itself. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that one.

One update to share. In the past hour, I learned that the player I reported has been banned and I was thanked for helping to identify the problem. My reaction isn't one of vindication ("Got him!"), but more along the lines of, "Huh. Interesting. So I was right to be suspicious." I was ready to believe I was mistaken; had nothing happened with this last report of mine, I would have just figured the player had a string of great games, and let it go.

My advice to people on both sides of the issue would be as follows:

(1) If you think cheating IS NOT a problem, fine. Ignore the discussions of cheating by other players and look for conversations where you can actually contribute something other than snark and insults. By no stretch of the imagination do you have a right to insist that others not discuss the topic.

(2) If you think cheating IS a problem, understand that it probably isn't as large a problem as you think. Never openly accuse another player of cheating; instead, do research, make some notes, and if you still think your suspicions are justified, file a report. You may not hear back from the mods; if you don't, you should figure that an investigation with tools you don't have access to found there wasn't an issue and, at this point, you should let it go.

Hope this helps.

I'm not "shaming" anybody, I am telling you that, in imagining cheating is more rampant and meaningful than it actually is, you are affecting your own experience playing online far more than the cheaters themselves are. So you identified a cheater, hit report, block him, and move on, for your own sake. It does not impact you further.

As for the "triggering" and "suspicious behavior" mentioned - I see it the exact opposite. I think it's the insistence that cheaters are a huge problem when they are not that is suspicious. I think the assumption that everyone else is cheating too is probably the most common rationalization given by cheaters, perhaps second to wanting a falsely high rating. That's just a guess on my part though, based on the fact that those are basically the two reasons people give to defend their cheating in any sport or game when caught.

Theres an odd cheat out there (absolutely) - but the majority of the rapid pool is just distgustingly terrible (including this blindfold account ofc)

Just have fun playing chess and improve ignoring the 1-2% cheats (huge exaggeration btw)

Those ghostbuster communitys end up mixing up everything. Look in those witch-hunting forums, they even develop home-made programs which fail miserably. Moreover, you’ll help the cheaters getting better.

I cannot stand this ubiquitous „triple-0, is my opponent a cheater?“ Indeed, I report name & shame.

Let the pros do the job, just report.

@Chuck_Fess Again, I don't know where you keep getting these low opinions of me or my thought process. You state: "in imagining cheating is more rampant and meaningful than it actually is...." And you base this on what, exactly? How exactly do you know that cheating is less of a problem than I think it is? And how is it that you have this idea that I am "affecting [my] own experience playing online far more than the cheaters themselves are"? Where do you get this idea that it's a problem?

Frankly, those are a lot of assumptions you're making and a lot of hot air you're blowing.

I play chess online. I enjoy it. I occasionally report on cheats. More often than not, they get banned. How is this a problem? Why do you feel a need to lecture me, as you've been doing now for, what, four or five comments?

If you don't think cheating is a problem, or if you don't want to talk about it, fine. Do the rest of us who feel otherwise a favor and move on to another post.

@Sarg0n Honestly, I have no idea what it is you're trying to say with this garbled comment of yours, nor do I have any idea how it relates to my original post.

@SnackYourPawn So... are you saying you have a problem with my post here? Are you saying I'm "witch hunting," whatever it is you mean by that? (What DO you mean by that?)

With my post, I asked specifically for some informed opinions about perfect games. You know what I got, in the way of informed opinions? Absolutely nothing.

Instead, what I got is several people offering irrelevant opinions, that are both erroneous in their assumptions and insulting. Frankly, those responses are neither helpful nor appreciated.

This ACPL and error consideration-only is only a small part of the equation. The detection algorithms are already lightyears ahead, you know? In other words: you are missing the point.

github.com/clarkerubber/irwin

Read this:

www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/9s9ml8/how_does_chesscom_and_lichess_deal_with_gms/e8n9uwg

„Instead these systems are based more on probability. Big websites have millions of games to analyse - including games with confirmed GMs to learn from. A fraud detection algorithm can consider unlimited questions like:

If black has a 3 pawn lead but lots of unguarded pieces and down a knight, how likely are they to aggressively recapture instead of defend?
If black has been playing aggressively, how likely are they to play a very difficult to calculate defensive move?
When black has 15 available moves, 10 of which are pretty good, how long will it take for black to play a move?
Black has played 20 straight GM level moves and has a strong material lead. What are the odds that black will now play an amateur blunder? A "look I'm not cheating" move?
Is black suddenly playing like a GM whenever there's one really important move?
Does black suddenly play very well mid game if they are slightly behind? How likely is a human to do that?
Is black playing hard to calculate moves just as fast as easy to calculate recaptures?“

No, I meant "let me translate this for you" in regards to sargon's post.

My personal opinion isn't that different though - even though I wouldn't get too deep into philosophical aapects of things.

In general I've seen maybe 1-2 of users I deeply suspected of cheating not eventually banned. Compared to hundreds which did (some after minutes, other after days)

Reconnecting