Is there a mathematical proof of that?
Also would you rather have 9 pawns or a queen?
@Billmtl said in #1:
> Is there a mathematical proof of that?
The premise is false. There is no universally agreed value.
Different people assign different values to the Queen. Wikipedia has a whole page on relative chess piece values [1], which a section of alternative systems. Values for the Queen range from 7.9 (by Jacob Sarrat, early 19th century) to 13.5 (computer, 1992). Other values include 9.94 (Philidor, Staunton), 9-10 (Lasker), 10 (Euwe) and 9.5 (AlphaZero). Note also that values may change during a game (that is, some pieces may be valued more (or less) in the endgame than in the opening).
[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_piece_relative_value#Alternative_valuations
> Is there a mathematical proof of that?
The premise is false. There is no universally agreed value.
Different people assign different values to the Queen. Wikipedia has a whole page on relative chess piece values [1], which a section of alternative systems. Values for the Queen range from 7.9 (by Jacob Sarrat, early 19th century) to 13.5 (computer, 1992). Other values include 9.94 (Philidor, Staunton), 9-10 (Lasker), 10 (Euwe) and 9.5 (AlphaZero). Note also that values may change during a game (that is, some pieces may be valued more (or less) in the endgame than in the opening).
[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_piece_relative_value#Alternative_valuations
A rook trapped in the corner is worth 0.
I think they were guessing originally, I'm not sure what the relative piece values are not. depends a lot on the position.
It was not "calculated"; it was "arrived at." :)
I have it on good authority that they put 9 numbered pieces of paper into a hat and drew one out. Voila!
Ask any GM or Dr Google for absolute verification of this little known nugget of chess history.
Ask any GM or Dr Google for absolute verification of this little known nugget of chess history.
It's just a rough guideline, but I think it has less to do with its strength against pawn masses, and instead indicates (1) that two rooks are often better than a queen, and equal to a queen and pawn, because the rooks can force the pawn off the board, (2) a queen is normally worth more than a rook and minor piece, because the queen can usually put the pieces into zugzwang, and (3) three minor pieces can match or even defeat a queen if they are coordinated. There are lots of exceptions, however, such as the fact that two knights can usually draw against a queen.
9 is a heuristic.
Mathematically, every position can only be a win, draw or loss. Your queen doesn't matter if your opponent can checkmate you on the next move.
Finding good heuristics is a challenge when making chess engines.
Mathematically, every position can only be a win, draw or loss. Your queen doesn't matter if your opponent can checkmate you on the next move.
Finding good heuristics is a challenge when making chess engines.
My guess is that over a long period of time they played lots and lots of games. They figured out that a bishop and a knight are about as good as 3 pawns but not as good as 4 (all else being equal). Then they figured out that a queen is about as good as 2 bishops and a knight or 2 knights and a bishop.
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