- Blind mode tutorial
lichess.org
Donate

Are you allowed to use an engine in unranked friendly games?

#1

Hi,

I'm a purely unranked player, and I almost exclusively play with my friends on my own team while in vocal chat with them. And while my winrate probably tells you I focus more on the fun side than the competitive one, I've found I quite liked the lichess analysis function and in particular looking at stockfish moves to try and improve. So much so that I've started using it to analyse live games between my friend or to try and find out in my own games whether stockfish would concede in a spot where I would concede and what it would do to get out of it (after asking my friends if it was ok, ofc).

Since I only do it in unranked friendly games and with consent, I believe it's totally fine from an ethical point of view. However, I do not know whether it's allowed by lichess, and I would like to avoid getting myself - or worse, one of my friend - banned.

So 1) If I'm spectating an unranked game between members of my lichess team, am I allowed to replicate their position in the lichess analysis tool and activate stockfish?

  1. If I'm playing an unranked game vs a member of my lichess team, am I allowed to replicate my position in the lichess analysis tool for stockfish score purpose?

  2. If I'm playing an unranked game vs a member of my lichess team, am I allowed to replicate my position in the lichess analysis tool and then play the stockfish moves (assume I have consent from my friend, but lichess can't really know that)?

Thank you very much for any answer. If it's not allowed I will stop doing it, though I believe it's quite harmless.

Hi, I'm a purely unranked player, and I almost exclusively play with my friends on my own team while in vocal chat with them. And while my winrate probably tells you I focus more on the fun side than the competitive one, I've found I quite liked the lichess analysis function and in particular looking at stockfish moves to try and improve. So much so that I've started using it to analyse live games between my friend or to try and find out in my own games whether stockfish would concede in a spot where I would concede and what it would do to get out of it (after asking my friends if it was ok, ofc). Since I only do it in unranked friendly games and with consent, I believe it's totally fine from an ethical point of view. However, I do not know whether it's allowed by lichess, and I would like to avoid getting myself - or worse, one of my friend - banned. So 1) If I'm spectating an unranked game between members of my lichess team, am I allowed to replicate their position in the lichess analysis tool and activate stockfish? 2) If I'm playing an unranked game vs a member of my lichess team, am I allowed to replicate my position in the lichess analysis tool for stockfish score purpose? 3) If I'm playing an unranked game vs a member of my lichess team, am I allowed to replicate my position in the lichess analysis tool and then play the stockfish moves (assume I have consent from my friend, but lichess can't really know that)? Thank you very much for any answer. If it's not allowed I will stop doing it, though I believe it's quite harmless.
#2

The real question is...just how friendly are these friendly games? :)

The real question is...just how friendly are these friendly games? :)
#3

And incidentally, I don't think that's a very good idea. Running the analysis after you play would probably end up being more useful for improvement purposes.

And incidentally, I don't think that's a very good idea. Running the analysis after you play would probably end up being more useful for improvement purposes.
#5

[Disclaimer] I am one of @xelote 's friend

I agree with @MrPushwood , I'm not sure looking at the evaluation during your games is the best way to have fun or to improve.

Does anyone know about the "analyzing friendly games of others while being on a vocal chat with both players and possibly giving away some information" part ? During rated games, I believe this should not be allowed although it's impossible to enforce. However, during friendly games (which, at lease with me, are really friendly), if all players are aware of what is going on and agree with it before the game, i believe there is no reason to forbid such a behaviour, but would Lichess see this as cheating is the question.
Should we ask Thibault for this ?

[Disclaimer] I am one of @xelote 's friend I agree with @MrPushwood , I'm not sure looking at the evaluation during your games is the best way to have fun or to improve. Does anyone know about the "analyzing friendly games of others while being on a vocal chat with both players and possibly giving away some information" part ? During rated games, I believe this should not be allowed although it's impossible to enforce. However, during friendly games (which, at lease with me, are really friendly), if all players are aware of what is going on and agree with it *before the game*, i believe there is no reason to forbid such a behaviour, but would Lichess see this as cheating is the question. Should we ask Thibault for this ?
#6

Is the first sentence of the terms of service so difficult to understand?

"Do not cheat or receive assistance in games (from a chess computer, book, database or another person)."
https://lichess.org/terms-of-service

Period. End of story. It does not say "rated games", it says "games".

Unrated games can be competitive as well, team battles, prizes, qualification spots and so forth.

Is the first sentence of the terms of service so difficult to understand? "Do not cheat or receive assistance in games (from a chess computer, book, database or another person)." https://lichess.org/terms-of-service Period. End of story. It does not say "rated games", it says "games". Unrated games can be competitive as well, team battles, prizes, qualification spots and so forth.
#7

@oberschlumpf

I feel like you did not read my post at all. Were you in such a hurry you were trying to answer from the title alone?

In particular I don't understand how you can jump from "can I analyze unranked friendly games I'm spectating using stockfish" to "some unrated games can be competitive". I'm pretty obviously not talking about such games, aren't I?

Also the part you're quoting doesn't specify more because it's a tl;dr. For example, it directly contradicts this part : "Some Users may want to play as a team for entertainment or educational purposes. If this is the case, the account must be clearly labelled so other Users have reasonable warning.", or this part : "opening books (except for correspondence games)".

So it's pretty obviously not the end of the story.

@oberschlumpf I feel like you did not read my post at all. Were you in such a hurry you were trying to answer from the title alone? In particular I don't understand how you can jump from "can I analyze unranked friendly games I'm spectating using stockfish" to "some unrated games can be competitive". I'm pretty obviously not talking about such games, aren't I? Also the part you're quoting doesn't specify more because it's a tl;dr. For example, it directly contradicts this part : "Some Users may want to play as a team for entertainment or educational purposes. If this is the case, the account must be clearly labelled so other Users have reasonable warning.", or this part : "opening books (except for correspondence games)". So it's pretty obviously not the end of the story.
#8

@xelote:

Your first point is not controversial. As a spectator you can of course analyze every running game (rated or unrated) with an engine. But it is better to use your own local engine to spare the ressources of the website. Many websites are providing engine evaluations during grandmaster tournaments.

I did not want to repeat the valid points of @MrPushwood and @TBest. If you want to play with the assistance of an engine, then you can either create a bot account or play as a guest. I don't see any need to introduce confusing exceptions for the use of engines.

@xelote: Your first point is not controversial. As a spectator you can of course analyze every running game (rated or unrated) with an engine. But it is better to use your own local engine to spare the ressources of the website. Many websites are providing engine evaluations during grandmaster tournaments. I did not want to repeat the valid points of @MrPushwood and @TBest. If you want to play with the assistance of an engine, then you can either create a bot account or play as a guest. I don't see any need to introduce confusing exceptions for the use of engines.
#9

If you want to cheat with engine, play against " Stockfish".

You are not allowed to use engine assistant against human.

If you want to cheat with engine, play against " Stockfish". You are not allowed to use engine assistant against human.
#10

Iccf legally allow engine assistant. You can use engine over there.

Also, what is your motif to cheat against your own friend?

Iccf legally allow engine assistant. You can use engine over there. Also, what is your motif to cheat against your own friend?

This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.