Kusokosla
Have you read a book call GM RAM ?
Have you read a book call GM RAM ?
In the United States there is an age limit to becoming an air traffic controller which is before the age of 30. Why is there an age limit? Because the government knows the older you get the more resources you require to learn the same material. They aren't saying you can't learn the job after the age of 30; they are saying it would be too costly to train older people to do the same job as the younger person.
This applies to all things and that even includes chess. You can learn the same material as a teenager or a kid but you need a lot more resources to do so. The thing is, can you find the time and use the correct amount of resources needed to learn? You might need more coaching time, you might need more books to explain things or even go over those books a second time. It only gets harder as you get older and you will need to add even more learning resources.
I believe it is completely up to you to decide if you are willing to pay the price.
This applies to all things and that even includes chess. You can learn the same material as a teenager or a kid but you need a lot more resources to do so. The thing is, can you find the time and use the correct amount of resources needed to learn? You might need more coaching time, you might need more books to explain things or even go over those books a second time. It only gets harder as you get older and you will need to add even more learning resources.
I believe it is completely up to you to decide if you are willing to pay the price.
Difford
I haven’t heard of it, but I googled it and it seems interesting. Unfortunately I can’t see any examples or excerpts from the book, reviewers are mixed, but maybe I’ll just grab one online and check it out.
I haven’t heard of it, but I googled it and it seems interesting. Unfortunately I can’t see any examples or excerpts from the book, reviewers are mixed, but maybe I’ll just grab one online and check it out.
Kusokosla
You should get it. It dove tails nicely into your philosophy.
You should get it. It dove tails nicely into your philosophy.
DragonChess1
Great points.
At some point there comes a limit thou, I can’t believe that someone who started chess at say Age of 40 can get to puzzle rush score of 52 or so, there is going to be a limit in speed, memory, pattern recognition, and even hand eye coordination to move the mouse or finger that fast... If I had to guess I would say a super healthy talented adult who is fast thinking and full of energy and desire to learn the game as best as he can can probably get into mid 30s on puzzle rush, maybe 40, but that is pushing it. I bring up puzzle rush because it correlates closely with rating, and is a much easier tool to witness, track and monitor one’s results and potential.
Chess is just like language or classical music training. Adults who started a language after their 15th or so birthday will have an ugly accent and speak slower. Even under ideal conditions they are unlikely to become world class poets or writers in that language, ever.
In my humble opinion, in chess, based on my games VS various 1900-2300 and titled players, I feel that a super healthy talented, fast thinking and driven motivated adult can achieve master strength with proper coaching and consistent training, but I have doubts about GM title. Absolutely zero chance to become 2600. Another question that you touched upon is: who would make such an investment of their time and money, and why would they do it, since they didn’t do it earlier in life, perhaps it means chess doesn’t interest them that much?
Great points.
At some point there comes a limit thou, I can’t believe that someone who started chess at say Age of 40 can get to puzzle rush score of 52 or so, there is going to be a limit in speed, memory, pattern recognition, and even hand eye coordination to move the mouse or finger that fast... If I had to guess I would say a super healthy talented adult who is fast thinking and full of energy and desire to learn the game as best as he can can probably get into mid 30s on puzzle rush, maybe 40, but that is pushing it. I bring up puzzle rush because it correlates closely with rating, and is a much easier tool to witness, track and monitor one’s results and potential.
Chess is just like language or classical music training. Adults who started a language after their 15th or so birthday will have an ugly accent and speak slower. Even under ideal conditions they are unlikely to become world class poets or writers in that language, ever.
In my humble opinion, in chess, based on my games VS various 1900-2300 and titled players, I feel that a super healthy talented, fast thinking and driven motivated adult can achieve master strength with proper coaching and consistent training, but I have doubts about GM title. Absolutely zero chance to become 2600. Another question that you touched upon is: who would make such an investment of their time and money, and why would they do it, since they didn’t do it earlier in life, perhaps it means chess doesn’t interest them that much?
Nobody reasonable ever told that reaching a level of 2xxx is simple for an adult "starter".
The first book review on amazon www.amazon.com/Gm-Ram-Essential-Grandmaster-Chess-Knowledge/dp/0938650726 gives the core and Thomas Luther in his book on tactic training www.schachversand.de/schach-taktik-training.html talks of 4-5 hours daily training! Luther knows something about empirical psychology, is GM, is experienced FIDE-Trainer.
As I got contact to two players here I will open a new topic about good training. Atm I have to manage health problems myself and in my family. But I wil start this somewhen this year.
The lack of empirical training knowledge is stunning. I would bet: A healthy adult with average IQ or better training daily at least 30 minutes and playing four tournaments with at least 30 tournament games (not blitz, not rapid) over all will win 100 Elo in two years if his rating is beyond 1500 with the right training.
A beginner in team matches in a club is mostly around 1200. In five to six years s/he will reach average club player level, which is 1500 when spending the time systematically.
Probably the learning curve is steeper at that level, but there is a lack of data. So I make a very reluctant prognosis. It is far beyond master level, but surely more interesting for most players here. And 2000 should be possible with peserveration. Then the first step to getting master begins.
The first book review on amazon www.amazon.com/Gm-Ram-Essential-Grandmaster-Chess-Knowledge/dp/0938650726 gives the core and Thomas Luther in his book on tactic training www.schachversand.de/schach-taktik-training.html talks of 4-5 hours daily training! Luther knows something about empirical psychology, is GM, is experienced FIDE-Trainer.
As I got contact to two players here I will open a new topic about good training. Atm I have to manage health problems myself and in my family. But I wil start this somewhen this year.
The lack of empirical training knowledge is stunning. I would bet: A healthy adult with average IQ or better training daily at least 30 minutes and playing four tournaments with at least 30 tournament games (not blitz, not rapid) over all will win 100 Elo in two years if his rating is beyond 1500 with the right training.
A beginner in team matches in a club is mostly around 1200. In five to six years s/he will reach average club player level, which is 1500 when spending the time systematically.
Probably the learning curve is steeper at that level, but there is a lack of data. So I make a very reluctant prognosis. It is far beyond master level, but surely more interesting for most players here. And 2000 should be possible with peserveration. Then the first step to getting master begins.
There can be many reasons why someone wasn't involved in chess when they were a kid. Having no interest is just one of many reasons, they could of had a rough life where they were raising themselves or their parents were pushing to do certain things; they could of been just flat out homeless during that time.
Reaching GM title would be a stretch when you hit a certain age. The lower end of the titles would probably be a much more realistic goal. It is also like golf, someone that has lots of money can train themselves to be a good golfer and may even compete in golf tournaments but they probably won't be a top PGA player or the next tiger woods, Jack Nicklaus ect.
Saying you want to be 2600 plus as an adult is exactly like saying you will be a world class PGA player at age 30. You can be become good at it but don't expect to be the best or even close to the best.
Reaching GM title would be a stretch when you hit a certain age. The lower end of the titles would probably be a much more realistic goal. It is also like golf, someone that has lots of money can train themselves to be a good golfer and may even compete in golf tournaments but they probably won't be a top PGA player or the next tiger woods, Jack Nicklaus ect.
Saying you want to be 2600 plus as an adult is exactly like saying you will be a world class PGA player at age 30. You can be become good at it but don't expect to be the best or even close to the best.
@piscatorox Thank you for that example of Matt O'Brien. His story is inspiring.
@Kusokosla only 45 people in the world managed to get a score to puzzle rush of more than 52.Do you consider a world class player?
@jupp53
I looked up Thomas Luther and the only book in English is Luther's Chess Reformation. Hopefully there will be a translated version of the one you mentioned in the future.
I look forward to your post on training.
I looked up Thomas Luther and the only book in English is Luther's Chess Reformation. Hopefully there will be a translated version of the one you mentioned in the future.
I look forward to your post on training.
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