in this game i had a lot of difficulties in the opening... i often get this kind of set up in game and i am really afraid of seeing quiet stuff like d3 in italien opening and in spanish opening... what do you suggest i should play here? analysis showed me that i made no single blunder but my pieces, everytime, like in this game and in this quiet opening standing in unharmony somewhere on the board, that this makes no fun with black... any suggestions how to react? white players which plays this opening, knows the common plans with white, so maybe there are some good plans for black too, which i dont know... i have the feeling that black must play really precise to get equal positions and i dont want to learn so many opening lines :) so pls help :)
With the pawn only at d3 and the QN at d2 the plan Bg4-h5 to control d4 just doesn't work, you have to find something else. Apparently there are three common plans in this position :
1) Na5 then c5
2) Be6 then Qd7
3) Kh8,Ng8 then f5 unless White opens the center with d4.
1) Na5 then c5
2) Be6 then Qd7
3) Kh8,Ng8 then f5 unless White opens the center with d4.
Hi @Happysanta , the first thing that came to my mind was your passive bishop on e7.
If you had played 4. ...Bc5, then your dark-squared bishop would be on a much more active square and a future ...d6 would not lock that bishop up.
Let's assess the position after white's 7th move:
- White's best piece is the bishop on c4
- White has some space on the queenside due to his pawn on a4
- Black's position slowly but surely seems to get passive, so expanding/gaining some space and freeing black's pieces could be an idea
Let's combine an attack on the Bc4 with gaining some central space:
7. ...Na5
8. Ba2 c5! ...and from here you can play on.
A lesson from this game could be to not block in your pieces (especially the bishops) behind your own pawns and also fight for more space/your fair share of the centre.
Any more suggestions from someone else?
Have fun!
If you had played 4. ...Bc5, then your dark-squared bishop would be on a much more active square and a future ...d6 would not lock that bishop up.
Let's assess the position after white's 7th move:
- White's best piece is the bishop on c4
- White has some space on the queenside due to his pawn on a4
- Black's position slowly but surely seems to get passive, so expanding/gaining some space and freeing black's pieces could be an idea
Let's combine an attack on the Bc4 with gaining some central space:
7. ...Na5
8. Ba2 c5! ...and from here you can play on.
A lesson from this game could be to not block in your pieces (especially the bishops) behind your own pawns and also fight for more space/your fair share of the centre.
Any more suggestions from someone else?
Have fun!
@Nerwal said in #2:
> With the pawn only at d3 and the QN at d2 the plan Bg4-h5 to control d4 just doesn't work, you have to find something else. Apparently there are three common plans in this position :
> 1) Na5 then c5
> 2) Be6 then Qd7
> 3) Kh8,Ng8 then f5 unless White opens the center with d4.
wow, very nice summary of plans thx a lot
> With the pawn only at d3 and the QN at d2 the plan Bg4-h5 to control d4 just doesn't work, you have to find something else. Apparently there are three common plans in this position :
> 1) Na5 then c5
> 2) Be6 then Qd7
> 3) Kh8,Ng8 then f5 unless White opens the center with d4.
wow, very nice summary of plans thx a lot
@derkleineJo said in #3:
> Hi @Happysanta , the first thing that came to my mind was your passive bishop on e7.
>
> If you had played 4. ...Bc5, then your dark-squared bishop would be on a much more active square and a future ...d6 would not lock that bishop up.
>
> Let's assess the position after white's 7th move:
> - White's best piece is the bishop on c4
> - White has some space on the queenside due to his pawn on a4
> - Black's position slowly but surely seems to get passive, so expanding/gaining some space and freeing black's pieces could be an idea
>
> Let's combine an attack on the Bc4 with gaining some central space:
> 7. ...Na5
> 8. Ba2 c5! ...and from here you can play on.
>
> A lesson from this game could be to not block in your pieces (especially the bishops) behind your own pawns and also fight for more space/your fair share of the centre.
>
> Any more suggestions from someone else?
>
> Have fun!
thx a lot... i often played Bc5 and played active, also d5 and Bc5, but whites pieces and play seems a lot more natural, in these positions... i often have no plan in such positions and in this game i posted i should have lost, cause of my bishop g4 plan and put it on g6... i won because my opponent made many blunders... if someone has another plan pls post it here... maybe an active plan... i am searching for an more active game and post it here... one moment :)
> Hi @Happysanta , the first thing that came to my mind was your passive bishop on e7.
>
> If you had played 4. ...Bc5, then your dark-squared bishop would be on a much more active square and a future ...d6 would not lock that bishop up.
>
> Let's assess the position after white's 7th move:
> - White's best piece is the bishop on c4
> - White has some space on the queenside due to his pawn on a4
> - Black's position slowly but surely seems to get passive, so expanding/gaining some space and freeing black's pieces could be an idea
>
> Let's combine an attack on the Bc4 with gaining some central space:
> 7. ...Na5
> 8. Ba2 c5! ...and from here you can play on.
>
> A lesson from this game could be to not block in your pieces (especially the bishops) behind your own pawns and also fight for more space/your fair share of the centre.
>
> Any more suggestions from someone else?
>
> Have fun!
thx a lot... i often played Bc5 and played active, also d5 and Bc5, but whites pieces and play seems a lot more natural, in these positions... i often have no plan in such positions and in this game i posted i should have lost, cause of my bishop g4 plan and put it on g6... i won because my opponent made many blunders... if someone has another plan pls post it here... maybe an active plan... i am searching for an more active game and post it here... one moment :)
@Happysanta said in #5:
> thx a lot... i often played Bc5 and played active, also d5 and Bc5, but whites pieces and play seems a lot more natural, in these positions... i often have no plan in such positions and in this game i posted i should have lost, cause of my bishop g4 plan and put it on g6... i won because my opponent made many blunders... if someone has another plan pls post it here... maybe an active plan... i am searching for an more active game and post it here... one moment :)
Well, this is the Italian game. Bc4 and Bc5 (with or without a prior Nf3 and Nc6) are more or less the main lines.
So as a white player, that uses this opening, he/she will surely know where to put their pieces (which puts you on pressure to do/know at least the same).
I personally avoid 1. ...e5 most of the time, because i rather test my opponent's skill in the middle- and in the endgame, instead of the opening and therefore use some general opening systems like the Hippopotamus, the Sniper or play the Modern defence or the Owen's defence.
But that's just my personal try on that topic...
Have fun, anyway!
> thx a lot... i often played Bc5 and played active, also d5 and Bc5, but whites pieces and play seems a lot more natural, in these positions... i often have no plan in such positions and in this game i posted i should have lost, cause of my bishop g4 plan and put it on g6... i won because my opponent made many blunders... if someone has another plan pls post it here... maybe an active plan... i am searching for an more active game and post it here... one moment :)
Well, this is the Italian game. Bc4 and Bc5 (with or without a prior Nf3 and Nc6) are more or less the main lines.
So as a white player, that uses this opening, he/she will surely know where to put their pieces (which puts you on pressure to do/know at least the same).
I personally avoid 1. ...e5 most of the time, because i rather test my opponent's skill in the middle- and in the endgame, instead of the opening and therefore use some general opening systems like the Hippopotamus, the Sniper or play the Modern defence or the Owen's defence.
But that's just my personal try on that topic...
Have fun, anyway!
this game i found for now... i played more active... dont know if its also a plan with d5... the analysis program showed that there is nothing wrong with d5 and Lc5 but my opponent didnt played the best moves in this game... now i searched long for a game, and i didnt found the games i played which i had in mind...
@Nerwal said in #2:
> With the pawn only at d3 and the QN at d2 the plan Bg4-h5 to control d4 just doesn't work, you have to find something else. Apparently there are three common plans in this position :
> 1) Na5 then c5
> 2) Be6 then Qd7
> 3) Kh8,Ng8 then f5 unless White opens the center with d4.
i played now Be6+f5 plan so plan 2+3 :)) i made 2 blunders, but not a bad game... still i have the feeling that black has a more difficult quest than white in this opening
> With the pawn only at d3 and the QN at d2 the plan Bg4-h5 to control d4 just doesn't work, you have to find something else. Apparently there are three common plans in this position :
> 1) Na5 then c5
> 2) Be6 then Qd7
> 3) Kh8,Ng8 then f5 unless White opens the center with d4.
i played now Be6+f5 plan so plan 2+3 :)) i made 2 blunders, but not a bad game... still i have the feeling that black has a more difficult quest than white in this opening
in move 13... i had Bf2. i found it after i played my move 13... Qd6 :P after that an interesting endgame occured... i played the opening active which payed off i would say... thx for help guys... if someone have another plan for black in this opening with d3, pls share it
@Happysanta said in #4:
> wow, very nice summary of plans thx a lot
I have a better idea. play the dragon!
> wow, very nice summary of plans thx a lot
I have a better idea. play the dragon!
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