@Hagredion said in #9:
> Really? How do you explain then that the best OTB classical players are mostly the same guys as online blitz players Carlsen, Nakamura, Firouzja etc.?
It's true that there is a correlation between classical skill and online skill. However there are some differences: Naroditsky and Bortnyk are much better at online relative to classical, Caruana is not as good at online compared to his classical skill.
Also, the point of contention is that there is not enough opportunities for the next gen at classical chess. The fact that prodigies have opportunities online doesn't mean they should be deprived of opportunities in classical.
Another example is https://lichess.org/@/penguingim1 who won several titled arenas on lichess still far away from top players in classical OTB chess https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2059630
@RuyLopez1000 said in #10:
> Yep, the new generation have more opportunities to play online. However they don't have as much opportunities to play in classical chess. So they have less opportunity to improve in classical chess.
>
> Whether they have more opportunity in classical chess compared to previous generations is an open question that needs analysis (They may have more considering the expansion of the World Cup players as well as the Grand Swiss - however these come only every two years). But I think that the current state is still not enough, as shown by the opportunity indicator (not much games against higher rated opponents).
It doesn't need any analysis, previous generations didn't play against top players at 15 or whatever either. And I really don't understand this "omg he became IM at..", "omg he became GM at..." I see everywhere. There is no need to rush, let them develop at their own pace, maybe some of them will chose another path in life rather than become chess players.
@RuyLopez1000 said in #11:
> It's true that there is a correlation between classical skill and online skill. However there are some differences: Naroditsky and Bortnyk are much better at online relative to classical, Caruana is not as good at online compared to his classical skill.
>
> Also, the point of contention is that there is not enough opportunities for the next gen at classical chess. The fact that prodigies have opportunities online doesn't mean they should be deprived of opportunities in classical.
Just because Naroditsky and Bortnyk are better online relative to classical it doesn't mean that the top classical players Carlsen, Nakamura, Firouzja aren't the best online. Just check the finals of what is probably the most famous online chess championship, the Speed Chess Championship:
2016 Carlsen vs Nakamura
2017 Carlsen vs Nakamura
2018 Nakamura vs So
2019 Nakamura vs So
2020 Nakamura vs MVL
2021 Nakamura vs So
2022 Nakamura vs Carlsen
2023 Carlsen vs Nakamura
2024 Carlsen vs Firouzja
it's true that you can't really know what will happen as @tpr said. I know people that were very high and promising and got stuck, and the opposite.
@Hagredion said in #13:
> It doesn't need any analysis, previous generations didn't play against top players at 15 or whatever either. And I really don't understand this "omg he became IM at..", "omg he became GM at..." I see everywhere. There is no need to rush, let them develop at their own pace, maybe some of them will chose another path in life rather than become chess players.
If previous generations didn't get opportunities that doesn't mean the new generation shouldn't get opportunities. Also it's not about age, it's about skill. Erdoğmuş only played 1 player higher rated by 100 points in the past year. No one demands that they play top players, but they should play more players who are higher rated then them (Opportunity indicator shows that they don't have much opportunities).
@Hagredion said in #14:
> Just because Naroditsky and Bortnyk are better online relative to classical it doesn't mean that the top classical players Carlsen, Nakamura, Firouzja aren't the best online. Just check the finals of what is probably the most famous online chess championship, the Speed Chess Championship:
>
> 2016 Carlsen vs Nakamura
> 2017 Carlsen vs Nakamura
> 2018 Nakamura vs So
> 2019 Nakamura vs So
> 2020 Nakamura vs MVL
> 2021 Nakamura vs So
> 2022 Nakamura vs Carlsen
> 2023 Carlsen vs Nakamura
> 2024 Carlsen vs Firouzja
True. The top blitz players are also in the top of classical chess. I was just pointing out differences between classical and blitz performance for some players.
It would have been interesting to add other players from past eras into the chart for further comparison. E.g. - Karjakin at one point looked more promising than Magnus, who himself also hit a major roadblock at some point in his relatively early career.
super