- Blind mode tutorial
lichess.org
Donate

Finding Pawn Breaks automatically

#21

@bluezorro251 said in #19:

Pointing Rule

which is? for same level definition sharing. Also, tthanks for alternate ideas.

Some of them seem to involve other concepts not direction defined. Like forcing open. That might be a consideration of when a pawn break links to another automatically definable (if care also applied) concept like open file. Which also would have evaluation and prevalence (where is a useful open file).

I think the blog made an effort in separating categories of aspects of human concepts, that make it both more automatically definable (but also, for that same genericity of theory building, more verificable communicatino for learning and teaching using words on chess).

So. We might need to dissect the alternate definitions, and not just about 4 games. (although those examples are data, and your post is welcome I think in that discussion). The source of the definition should not matter (although good to be able to find orbiting material from the source address). I mean as an argument of which deifition.

What is the purpose of a definition for me, is that we can buld tools around it that are position-set agnostic (automatisable by functoin such as an algorithm), and human teachable before having the hindsight point of view (for the learner). And yes, evaluation should be part of the discussion. The blog just started with the obvious and most generic tool we all can have access to. And yes, it does seem to be about chess study, not chess performance ready to wear toolery so far.

I do find 4 the more generic. (just if might be fleeting, and perhaps having pawns imparts a more committed view of the feature in the vertical direction from such a postoin)...

Maybe, that would allow intorducing another notion in chess definition beyond horizontal prevalance. But in the direction for tactical or long lasting.. feature of the board..

@bluezorro251 said in #19: > Pointing Rule which is? for same level definition sharing. Also, tthanks for alternate ideas. Some of them seem to involve other concepts not direction defined. Like forcing open. That might be a consideration of when a pawn break links to another automatically definable (if care also applied) concept like open file. Which also would have evaluation and prevalence (where is a useful open file). I think the blog made an effort in separating categories of aspects of human concepts, that make it both more automatically definable (but also, for that same genericity of theory building, more verificable communicatino for learning and teaching using words on chess). So. We might need to dissect the alternate definitions, and not just about 4 games. (although those examples are data, and your post is welcome I think in that discussion). The source of the definition should not matter (although good to be able to find orbiting material from the source address). I mean as an argument of which deifition. What is the purpose of a definition for me, is that we can buld tools around it that are position-set agnostic (automatisable by functoin such as an algorithm), and human teachable before having the hindsight point of view (for the learner). And yes, evaluation should be part of the discussion. The blog just started with the obvious and most generic tool we all can have access to. And yes, it does seem to be about chess study, not chess performance ready to wear toolery so far. I do find 4 the more generic. (just if might be fleeting, and perhaps having pawns imparts a more committed view of the feature in the vertical direction from such a postoin)... Maybe, that would allow intorducing another notion in chess definition beyond horizontal prevalance. But in the direction for tactical or long lasting.. feature of the board..
#22

I got it wrong with the October 2023 GOTM. b4b5 does not follow the Pointing Rule. The pawn structure is not locked.

https://lichess.org/study/CzrZJFQl/mgSM9485
On move 15, there are 2 possible pawn breaks for White, but Black wins against d5. Tactics limit White to using the b5 pawn break to open up the attack.

Pointing Rule: Generally, with locked center pawns, attack in the direction that the center pawns point.

Pawn Break Pointing Rule: In general, with a locked pawn structure, pawn break in the direction your pawns are pointing. This keeps the base of the pawn chain stable.

In this French Defence game

https://lichess.org/study/wvwA2BdW/LZ4V1FuJ
, the center pawns are locked at move 4. Black's center pawns point to a Queen side attack. White's center pawns point to a King side attack. Black fails to stop the King side pawn break h5, and so loses the game.

I got it wrong with the October 2023 GOTM. b4b5 does not follow the Pointing Rule. The pawn structure is not locked. https://lichess.org/study/CzrZJFQl/mgSM9485 On move 15, there are 2 possible pawn breaks for White, but Black wins against d5. Tactics limit White to using the b5 pawn break to open up the attack. Pointing Rule: Generally, with locked center pawns, attack in the direction that the center pawns point. Pawn Break Pointing Rule: In general, with a locked pawn structure, pawn break in the direction your pawns are pointing. This keeps the base of the pawn chain stable. In this French Defence game https://lichess.org/study/wvwA2BdW/LZ4V1FuJ , the center pawns are locked at move 4. Black's center pawns point to a Queen side attack. White's center pawns point to a King side attack. Black fails to stop the King side pawn break h5, and so loses the game.
#24

@Toscani said in #15:

A threat analysis would show the potential pawn break threats.
Correct

@Toscani said in #15: > A threat analysis would show the potential pawn break threats. Correct
#25
<Comment deleted by user>
#27

by vertical direction I meant in the game depth direction. That pawn blocks are more enduring than other pieces (of wood) that block.

@bluezorro251 thanks for the pointing action rule of thumb, extra thanks for the added supporting associable (fr?) of the base of the chain, or chain stability argument. So the pointing rule is not just about pawn break, but about the chain pawn feature, and it is the center version of the the chain that is prevalent (or opening/middle game concern).

I like discussions to learn about chess too (not just theory of learning about chess, or verifiable language about chess). I find that making definition and concept the target has a way to divulge through many heads elements that would otherwise be buried in full games (sorry that just came out of nowhere, and is not about the studies, I had the move numbers).

by vertical direction I meant in the game depth direction. That pawn blocks are more enduring than other pieces (of wood) that block. @bluezorro251 thanks for the pointing action rule of thumb, extra thanks for the added supporting associable (fr?) of the base of the chain, or chain stability argument. So the pointing rule is not just about pawn break, but about the chain pawn feature, and it is the center version of the the chain that is prevalent (or opening/middle game concern). I like discussions to learn about chess too (not just theory of learning about chess, or verifiable language about chess). I find that making definition and concept the target has a way to divulge through many heads elements that would otherwise be buried in full games (sorry that just came out of nowhere, and is not about the studies, I had the move numbers).
#28

@jk_182, thanks for your interesting blog. It inspired me to create my first blog!

Here you can find my definition of a Pawn Break. Notice it doesn't require to attack a blocked pawn (as GM Ramesh proposes).
https://lichess.org/@/xml3gn4r4c/blog/pawn-breaks-a-definition/JKQOYcEW

Let me know your thoughts.

@jk_182, thanks for your interesting blog. It inspired me to create my first blog! Here you can find my definition of a Pawn Break. Notice it doesn't require to attack a blocked pawn (as GM Ramesh proposes). https://lichess.org/@/xml3gn4r4c/blog/pawn-breaks-a-definition/JKQOYcEW Let me know your thoughts.