Should all engines be allowed?

I would be the only one in favor of the rule that you can't start bots with a stockfish engine, it's a fair joke because of the last engine.

Numbers are clear:

BOTS and Humans League 1 Team Battle
lichess.org/tournament/ZEo3wl0f
177 players
TOP 20 players, all 20 BOTS

2nd BOTS and Humans League 1 Team Battle
lichess.org/tournament/AjcHxULR
131 player
TOP 40 players, 38 BOTS

So, either BOTS strength will be limited (only below 2.500) or limited number of strong BOTS per team (2 BOTS with 2.500+) or something else...

Most people are not very thrilled to play a game of chess against a BOT, with no real chance to win.
No FUN ---> No Humans ---> No League.
If no changes are made, this League will die, fast, very fast.

At the very least bots should be doing inaccuracies or play the PV2 lines and not the PV1 lines.

@MarklarMarklar said in #52:

"only below 2.500"

Sir!

You must understand that the ratings for bots got computed from games they played with their own kind in a separate environment predominantly (just between themselves: BOTs). Basically it's/was CEGT/CCRL (rating lists for chess-engines) on LiChess.

So 'below 2500' could easily be an 'above 3500' if humans are concerned - but your suggestion is of course valid.

Greetings of the season!

@MarklarMarklar said in #52:
> Numbers are clear:
>
> BOTS and Humans League 1 Team Battle
> lichess.org/tournament/ZEo3wl0f
> 177 players
> TOP 20 players, all 20 BOTS
>
> 2nd BOTS and Humans League 1 Team Battle
> lichess.org/tournament/AjcHxULR
> 131 player
> TOP 40 players, 38 BOTS
>
> So, either BOTS strength will be limited (only below 2.500) or limited number of strong BOTS per team (2 BOTS with 2.500+) or something else...
>
> Most people are not very thrilled to play a game of chess against a BOT, with no real chance to win.
> No FUN ---> No Humans ---> No League.
> If no changes are made, this League will die, fast, very fast.
For now organizers don't have any possibility to limit Bot strength in specific, so for now the options are quite limited unfortunately. Let's see if there will be any options in the future though, still a relatively new feature.

@jeffforever said in #55:
> For now organizers don't have any possibility to limit Bot strength in specific, so for now the options are quite limited unfortunately. Let's see if there will be any options in the future though, still a relatively new feature.

Yes, I am aware of limitations, but just pointing out, that changes are necessary or League will go down in ashes.
We still can limit limit number of strong BOTS per team (2 BOTS with 2.500+) or something else...

Fair point, the question is how to limit in practice? Yes, we could say only X amount of bots or X strength allowed, however teams can still

a) join regardless with more than X bots
b) join with new bots that aren't strong yet (but are in reality), then it would require a discussion everytime if XYZ bot is strong enough or not based on tournament performance etc.

Ideally the rules should be defined by tournament creation options (or additional organizers options which aren't available like delete player XYZ), otherwise it will lead to endless discussion plus manual work. Sure, teams could be manually disqualified afterwards, however it will be not so easy to draw a line here. We can try though, ideas always welcome to discuss ;-)

@jeffforever said in #57:
> Ideally the rules should be defined by tournament creation options (or additional organizers options which aren't available like delete player XYZ), otherwise it will lead to endless discussion plus manual work.

Herding cats on the internet is hard, and the current topic is a corner case (team battles where the organizer doesn't impose rating or bot restrictions) and no matter what is coded, there will always be endless discussion. You already note in b) a potential problem with imposing bot-specific restriction options.

I'm finding it impossible to follow discussions which are split between Lichess team channels, this forum, GitHub, and elsewhere which all seem to run afoul of xyproblem.info . I'm trying but nothing I read seems even close to meriting additional code changes (aside perhaps from disabling team battle options because tournament organizers aren't responsible).

Just a piece of small information, a 2100 strength bot is stronger than 2600 human.

Naturally, if you do not make changes to the League regulations, it will soon die.
Therefore, it is necessary to use all the opportunities available to create tournaments.
1. Teams must have 20 leaders per club.
2. Tournaments must be rated
3. The account must have a limit of at least 1 month
4. Time controls: 2+1, 5+2, 10+0
This will give teams that do not yet have bots in their composition the opportunity to win tournaments precisely due to team play.