The pessimists are the optimists with life experience.
I know them all, starting late and sticking at a low level. Forget comparisons of accumulating dry declarative knowledge with competitive procedural skill like chess.
I have seen thousands of them struggling within 30 years. Yes, I don’t believe. Small steps yes, say from 1000-1600.
Forums are full of theoretic mountain-climbers - go for it and then we’ll see.
I know the quote. That quote is how every miserable old man justifies his vocal disdain for other people's optimism.
You were the one who made the comparison in the first place, now you are moving the goal posts. Chess principles from books are a version of the "dry declarative knowledge" you have just stated as irrelevant. Juniors read these books and many players learn endgame skills in such a way.
I have no idea about how many people who start late fail to reach "High" rating's or gain titles etc. But I would imagine that proportionately the amount of Scholastic players who fail to gain these is probably similar. The difference is, likely, that most Scholastic players who fail to achieve for example 1700 give up on Chess completely. How would any of us know? Whereas I would imagine that many players who start late, such as myself don't Quit Chess, so we inundate forums, such as this, to provide ammuntion for your very argument.
"Theoretical mountain Climbers"? I assume you didn't mean it to sound so condescending? What do you mean by that? I intend to keep doing what I am doing and try to prove people like yourself wrong in their assertions. I may fail, but If I fail it certainly won't be because you are correct, in your heuristic, dogmatic perception of age as a blockade to Chess progress. It will simply be because I haven't used my time productively enough OR haven't got any natural ability.
Aronian started relatively late too.
Dad Polgar - a profesional pedagogist - claimed he could make any kid excel in chess, mathematics, or music, provided he could train the kid from an early age. He somewhat proved it with his 3 daughters.
I think the whole process is similar to learning languages.
One can still learn a second language as an adult and even become perfectly fluid in it (even to the point where native speakers can't tell the difference). But you have to invest a lot of time ... while children simply learn their mother language "en passant" without much conscious effort.
Aronian started at the age of 9, not 30. By the way, I started at the age of 16. Last year I won 6 decent tournaments offline, I know how tens of thousands hours of work over the years feel like. Starting a couple of years later I would have never reached this level (cap).
Be optimistic, we‘ll talk again in 10 years or so. ;)
I did know how to move the pieces and played some games when I was a teenager. Does that count now. I've been seriously trying to improve over the last six or seven years now. I'm 35 for a couple more weeks.
Honestly, I'm sorry if you don't believe this, but in my opinion ,anyone can learn. I'm very young and I guess I do learn stuff a bit quicker but I think the main reason adults can't learn as fast is because I play chess maybe an hour a day and I improve, but how much can adults play? Well, they have to work and that cuts down their time, leading them to less chess time, so blame it not on their brains, but on the amount of time they can actually spend on it.
If I offended anyone I didn't mean it. :D
Chillkroete77 18 hours ago #3
Petrosian only started playing chess at age 16 and he became world champion. It certainly helps your chess skills if you start at a young age, but “old“ people can improve as well.
Umm, no. He learned at age 8.By 12 he was under a professional trainer.
I am not sure to understand: isn't there a *slight* difference between 'improving' and 'becoming a master of the game'?
I am 40+ and I just started chess since a few weeks (to say I am bad at it wouldn't be saying much). I don't know how long I'll play chess, but having no chance of ever being a champion (if I ever sit a table in front of Magnus Carlsen, it'll be to share a drink) won't prevent me to do something I enjoy doing. And try to improve while doing it (with the drink, I may also try to get some tips from Magnus himself ;))
Most people need only a few things to become very good at chess:
Start early, have a predisposition to be good, and play.
The amount of top players who started as adults is probably small.
As for improvement rates, I improved slowly.
Some people can jump quite fast after a couple years.
