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Solidarity with Venezuela

#51

@InkyDarkBird said in #49:

Is Trump going to actually improve the wellbeing of Venezuelans, or is he merely going to try and profit off the Venezuelan oil industry?

We already know the answer.

@InkyDarkBird said in #49: > Is Trump going to actually improve the wellbeing of Venezuelans, or is he merely going to try and profit off the Venezuelan oil industry? We already know the answer.
#52

@InkyDarkBird said in #49:

You can't intentionally kill people who have done nothing, but you can punish people who are criminals. Don't you agree?

If this was true for the Trump administration, they should've already arrested Putin and Netanyahu for war crimes, yet they have not.
This doesn't disprove my statement, as I said "you can [have the right to] punish criminals" and not "you must punish every criminal on the planet". I thought that was pretty obvious.

So we liberated Venezuela from a dictatorship. What's next? The last time we attempted to control another country that was suffering under a dictatorship was Iraq in 2003, and that failed miserably. Is Trump going to actually improve the wellbeing of Venezuelans, or is he merely going to try and profit off the Venezuelan oil industry?
Even if life of Venezuelians won't get much better (I think that it will), the Trump's operation is still justified. USA doesn't have to care about foreign nations, but it has the right to arrest foreign criminals.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/03/us/politics/trump-venezuela-oil.html
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/venezuelan-oil-industry-worlds-largest-reserves-decaying-infrastructure-2026-01-03/

@InkyDarkBird said in #49: > > **You can't intentionally kill people who have done nothing, but you can punish people who are criminals**. Don't you agree? > > If this was true for the Trump administration, they should've already arrested Putin and Netanyahu for war crimes, yet they have not. This doesn't disprove my statement, as I said "you can [have the right to] punish criminals" and not "you **must** punish every criminal on the planet". I thought that was pretty obvious. > So we liberated Venezuela from a dictatorship. What's next? The last time we attempted to control another country that was suffering under a dictatorship was Iraq in 2003, and that failed miserably. Is Trump going to actually improve the wellbeing of Venezuelans, or is he merely going to try and profit off the Venezuelan oil industry? Even if life of Venezuelians won't get much better (I think that it will), the Trump's operation is still justified. USA doesn't have to care about foreign nations, but it has the right to arrest foreign criminals. > > https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/03/us/politics/trump-venezuela-oil.html > https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/venezuelan-oil-industry-worlds-largest-reserves-decaying-infrastructure-2026-01-03/
#53

@#2, 3, 8
there is a difference..

•maduro was autocratic (=oppressing) dictator -
selenskiy elected regularly and - but for corruption and maybe(?) at least tolerating andor resonsible for harrassing separatists in its east - a democratic ruler.

• . . . ukraïne, and over a million dead, is the victim here -
, , , maduro is the objective, a number of civilians and defenders \ soldiers(?) are victim there.

• all in all in ven'z. it's brief action completed. ( there will be grass over it with the next breaking news within days, like with mother bomb on al khaida \ IS in trumps 1st period )
, , , while puººº in ukr is years ( way too ) long systematic going through the whole list of war crimes [ cf. genève convention ] and terror

@#2, 3, 8 there *is* a difference.. •maduro was autocratic (=oppressing) dictator - selenskiy elected regularly and - but for corruption and maybe(?) at least tolerating andor resonsible for harrassing separatists in its east - a democratic ruler. • . . . *ukraïne*, and over a million dead, is the victim here - , , , *maduro* is the objective, a number of civilians and defenders \ soldiers(?) are victim there. • all in all in ven'z. it's brief action completed. ( there will be grass over it with the next breaking news within days, like with mother bomb on al khaida \ IS in trumps 1st period ) , , , while puººº in ukr is years ( way too ) long systematic going through the whole list of war crimes [ cf. genève convention ] and terror
#54

@FishIsBack said in #52:

This doesn't disprove my statement, as I said "you can [have the right to] punish criminals" and not "you must punish every criminal on the planet". I thought that was pretty obvious.

If the US involves itself in global affairs yet punishes different leaders differently for their crimes, then I do not believe that Trump actually cares about enforcing global justice at all, but just seeks to profit. Remember how Trump pardoned Juan Orlando Hernández, the former president of Honduras convicted of drug trafficking?

Even if life of Venezuelians won't get much better (I think that it will), the Trump's operation is still justified. USA doesn't have to care about foreign nations, but it has the right to arrest foreign criminals.

If the US takes down a corrupt leader of a country and fail to make the country better for its citizens, the US is at fault. You cannot just destabilize a foreign government and then ignore the wellbeing of that country.

@FishIsBack said in #52: > This doesn't disprove my statement, as I said "you can [have the right to] punish criminals" and not "you **must** punish every criminal on the planet". I thought that was pretty obvious. If the US involves itself in global affairs yet punishes different leaders differently for their crimes, then I do not believe that Trump actually cares about enforcing global justice at all, but just seeks to profit. Remember how Trump pardoned Juan Orlando Hernández, the former president of Honduras convicted of drug trafficking? > Even if life of Venezuelians won't get much better (I think that it will), the Trump's operation is still justified. USA doesn't have to care about foreign nations, but it has the right to arrest foreign criminals. If the US takes down a corrupt leader of a country and fail to make the country better for its citizens, the US is at fault. You cannot just destabilize a foreign government and then ignore the wellbeing of that country.
#55

Maduro is not corrupt. Maduro was elected. Zelensky is corrupt. Zelensky was corrupted by US pressure and pressure from the neonazis that the US installed in power in Ukraine.

Maduro is not corrupt. Maduro was elected. Zelensky is corrupt. Zelensky was corrupted by US pressure and pressure from the neonazis that the US installed in power in Ukraine.
#56

@InkyDarkBird said in #54:

If the US takes down a corrupt leader of a country and fail to make the country better for its citizens, the US is at fault. You cannot just destabilize a foreign government and then ignore the wellbeing of that country.

No, it isn't and that how is the world works.

By your logic, if a criminal (for example, a murderer) has wife and kids, we shouldn't remove him from society just because it will affect his family and by your logic, the children's pain because their father was punished will be because of the judges and the police, and not because of the father himself.

@InkyDarkBird said in #54: > If the US takes down a corrupt leader of a country and fail to make the country better for its citizens, the US is at fault. You cannot just destabilize a foreign government and then ignore the wellbeing of that country. No, it isn't and that how is the world works. By your logic, if a criminal (for example, a murderer) has wife and kids, we shouldn't remove him from society just because it will affect his family and by your logic, the children's pain because their father was punished will be because of the judges and the police, and not because of the father himself.
#57

@FishIsBack said in #56:

By your logic, if a criminal (for example, a murderer) has wife and kids, we shouldn't remove him from society just because it will affect his family and by your logic, the children's pain because their father was punished will be because of the judges and the police, and not because of the father himself.

No, under my logic, if the family is unable to maintain a proper living standard after one of their relatives has gone to jail, they ought to seek proper insurance and get help finding a job for the time being.

I am not opposed to Maduro being punished. I am opposed to the contradictory punishments the US has administered to different corrupt leaders (Putin and Netanyahu not arrested, Hernández pardoned). I am also opposed to the exploitation of Venezuela's resources by the US and the current attempt by the Trump administration to govern Venezuela itself, rather than simply providing some funding and security and allowing Venezuelan citizens to choose how to govern.

I do not trust the US to be able to properly govern (is this even governing, or is this just colonialism all over again) Venezuela, especially given how incompetent this administration has already been by bypassing court orders and sending ICE agents everywhere, claiming that tariffs don't hurt the American consumer, and lying that the Epstein files didn't exist. The attack on Venezuela was not even approved by Congress, violating Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/01/03/trump-venezuela-oil.html

@FishIsBack said in #56: > By your logic, if a criminal (for example, a murderer) has wife and kids, we shouldn't remove him from society just because it will affect his family and by your logic, the children's pain because their father was punished will be because of the judges and the police, and not because of the father himself. No, under my logic, if the family is unable to maintain a proper living standard after one of their relatives has gone to jail, they ought to seek proper insurance and get help finding a job for the time being. I am not opposed to Maduro being punished. I am opposed to the contradictory punishments the US has administered to different corrupt leaders (Putin and Netanyahu not arrested, Hernández pardoned). I am also opposed to the exploitation of Venezuela's resources by the US and the current attempt by the Trump administration to govern Venezuela itself, rather than simply providing some funding and security and allowing Venezuelan citizens to choose how to govern. I do not trust the US to be able to properly govern (is this even governing, or is this just colonialism all over again) Venezuela, especially given how incompetent this administration has already been by bypassing court orders and sending ICE agents everywhere, claiming that tariffs don't hurt the American consumer, and lying that the Epstein files didn't exist. The attack on Venezuela was not even approved by Congress, violating Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. https://www.cnbc.com/2026/01/03/trump-venezuela-oil.html
#58

@FishIsBack said in #46:

This operation has nothing in common with Russia's criminal war in Ukraine.

Why? Is it because there's no oil in Ukraine?

@FishIsBack said in #46: > This operation has nothing in common with Russia's criminal war in Ukraine. Why? Is it because there's no oil in Ukraine?