@phoenixshade so you are telling me someone would put 10-15 years in chess and hours per day and not play a single freaking pro game and most of the time people dont play for money and if some GM went anon they wont get banned chesscom has great cheat detection and they wont block you for no reason
@MahatamaGandhi Punctuation is your friend. It will make you a little more intelligible.
And yes, I'm saying exactly that. There are players who only play online for various reasons. There is a twitch streamer I follow who plays here at a level that could easily be at least a CM if not FM, but from where he lives in Pakistan, he has little opportunity to play in FIDE events.
Oh, and not to mention that membership in these organizations and participation in tournaments COSTS money. Not everyone who plays chess is from someplace where you can take life's base necessities for granted and can splurge on hobbies on a whim.
And yes, I'm saying exactly that. There are players who only play online for various reasons. There is a twitch streamer I follow who plays here at a level that could easily be at least a CM if not FM, but from where he lives in Pakistan, he has little opportunity to play in FIDE events.
Oh, and not to mention that membership in these organizations and participation in tournaments COSTS money. Not everyone who plays chess is from someplace where you can take life's base necessities for granted and can splurge on hobbies on a whim.
@InvincibleX17
Here's where the logic of your argument against Levy breaks down.
For every one of Levy's reasons - you offer a possible but unlikely alternative explanation that makes non-cheating a consideration.
The problem with your strategy is that Levy detects MULTIPLE red flags in every cheater he identifies.
So if there is a twenty percent chance of being a non cheater on one red flag, but there are five red flags - that gives:
.2 to the fifth power = .0032 probability of being a non-cheater.
Here's where the logic of your argument against Levy breaks down.
For every one of Levy's reasons - you offer a possible but unlikely alternative explanation that makes non-cheating a consideration.
The problem with your strategy is that Levy detects MULTIPLE red flags in every cheater he identifies.
So if there is a twenty percent chance of being a non cheater on one red flag, but there are five red flags - that gives:
.2 to the fifth power = .0032 probability of being a non-cheater.
I've only seen the first video and I think one other, in the videos I saw, he didn't say if you're high rated and have no title you are a cheater. so it's pointless to make an argument about how an untitled player could be high rated and not a cheater.
I think he said he gets suspicious if they are high rated and don't have a title, then he looks into it more like #44 says.
I'm also not a fan of levy. different strokes for different folks, though. lots of people do like him.
I think he said he gets suspicious if they are high rated and don't have a title, then he looks into it more like #44 says.
I'm also not a fan of levy. different strokes for different folks, though. lots of people do like him.
#45 "I've only seen the first video and I think one other, in the videos I saw, he didn't say if you're high rated and have no title you are a cheater. so it's pointless to make an argument about how an untitled player could be high rated and not a cheater." Strawman
"I think he said he gets suspicious if they are high rated and don't have a title, then he looks into it more like #44 says."
Strawman
"I'm also not a fan of levy. different strokes for different folks, though. lots of people do like him."
Wrong
"I think he said he gets suspicious if they are high rated and don't have a title, then he looks into it more like #44 says."
Strawman
"I'm also not a fan of levy. different strokes for different folks, though. lots of people do like him."
Wrong
@phoenixshade great point certainly there could be such players but imagine the chances of one of them being the one he caught are sooo low and i don't think any of that even matters
Chesscom doesn't takes in consideration what levy or anyone has to say
It sees reports
It checks if there's something fishy
They have great software to detect it and it always happens
Chesscom doesn't takes in consideration what levy or anyone has to say
It sees reports
It checks if there's something fishy
They have great software to detect it and it always happens
Point by point:
1. They are higher rated than Levy and non titled so they are cheaters
-- No, but like many points on this list it's not so much 1 thing it's when multiple of these are true it's very suspicious
2.They spend 3-7 seconds on each move so they are a cheater...Honestly this doesn't make sense
-- This is actually one of the most reliable ways for laymen to detect an obvious cheater. Manually transferring moves takes most people 4-5 seconds. A human will play some moves instantly, and think for a while on others, especially a master level player.
3. They play with high accuracy [low ACPL] they are a cheater
-- If the game is very boring like a French Exchange or Slav Exchange then sure, even a n00b could have very low ACPL, but in a complex game it's basically impossible unless he were facing a super GM. This is one that doesn't really become evidence until there are many games of it in a row.
4.They play a natural move like castles which is the best move in the opening, they are a cheater ?
-- Theory has been developed over 100+ years, and these days is backed up by massive engine calculation. If you play a highly theoretical line, then deviate with a move that an engine would ONLY like after a FEW SECONDS of calculation, then yeah, that's very suspicious. There are plenty of moves like this that aren't mistakes, but basically never get played so they're a good indication of cheating.
5. In one video..He was playing with a supposed 'cheater' who was up a queen and was about to promote when Levy gave him/her a mate in 1 and said if they play the mate in 1 they are a bot ?
-- Not sure how this is confusing to you. Humans conserve time and energy by playing logical moves and also by not looking for better move once they find a clear win. Playing a move that causes a sudden change in the fastest way to win is a good way to catch someone who is just copying engine moves.
6. You play a natural move which Levy doesn't understand he is a cheater ?
-- Now you're just whining, heh.
7.He has Admin powers which means he can do anything.
-- I don't think he can ban people. I think like Hikaru he's a highly visible streamer to their users, so they probably assign some staff member to watch the stream and ban people. (Remember that one time a mod stupidly made a player resign for getting a winning position vs Hikaru during a simul, then they found out there was no cheating?) It's good publicity for the site to pretend they'll catch cheaters in 5 minutes when in reality, for guys like you and me, the cheaters we play may take a week or more to be banned.
8.So basically in his view : Every strong player needs to be titled otherwise you are a cheat ?
-- This conclusion does not follow from your previous argument, so again you're just whining.
1. They are higher rated than Levy and non titled so they are cheaters
-- No, but like many points on this list it's not so much 1 thing it's when multiple of these are true it's very suspicious
2.They spend 3-7 seconds on each move so they are a cheater...Honestly this doesn't make sense
-- This is actually one of the most reliable ways for laymen to detect an obvious cheater. Manually transferring moves takes most people 4-5 seconds. A human will play some moves instantly, and think for a while on others, especially a master level player.
3. They play with high accuracy [low ACPL] they are a cheater
-- If the game is very boring like a French Exchange or Slav Exchange then sure, even a n00b could have very low ACPL, but in a complex game it's basically impossible unless he were facing a super GM. This is one that doesn't really become evidence until there are many games of it in a row.
4.They play a natural move like castles which is the best move in the opening, they are a cheater ?
-- Theory has been developed over 100+ years, and these days is backed up by massive engine calculation. If you play a highly theoretical line, then deviate with a move that an engine would ONLY like after a FEW SECONDS of calculation, then yeah, that's very suspicious. There are plenty of moves like this that aren't mistakes, but basically never get played so they're a good indication of cheating.
5. In one video..He was playing with a supposed 'cheater' who was up a queen and was about to promote when Levy gave him/her a mate in 1 and said if they play the mate in 1 they are a bot ?
-- Not sure how this is confusing to you. Humans conserve time and energy by playing logical moves and also by not looking for better move once they find a clear win. Playing a move that causes a sudden change in the fastest way to win is a good way to catch someone who is just copying engine moves.
6. You play a natural move which Levy doesn't understand he is a cheater ?
-- Now you're just whining, heh.
7.He has Admin powers which means he can do anything.
-- I don't think he can ban people. I think like Hikaru he's a highly visible streamer to their users, so they probably assign some staff member to watch the stream and ban people. (Remember that one time a mod stupidly made a player resign for getting a winning position vs Hikaru during a simul, then they found out there was no cheating?) It's good publicity for the site to pretend they'll catch cheaters in 5 minutes when in reality, for guys like you and me, the cheaters we play may take a week or more to be banned.
8.So basically in his view : Every strong player needs to be titled otherwise you are a cheat ?
-- This conclusion does not follow from your previous argument, so again you're just whining.
#1 Have u watched the live stream? Levy takes suggestions from his chat and then he looks up the "supposed cheater" account on chess.com. He looks for their win percentage (most of them have >85% which I don't think even magnus has), when the account was created ( which usually is a week old), looks at the cap score in their last 10 won games (which again is usually >95% for 10 games continuously (highly unlikely)), looks at their live games where they take 5-6 seconds on almost every move (even if it's recapturing a piece) and many other things.
He does make sure that they are cheaters, and in the off-chance that they aren't, the mods anyway check the games before banning them.
He does make sure that they are cheaters, and in the off-chance that they aren't, the mods anyway check the games before banning them.
"Where they take 5-6 seconds on almost every move" Point 2 in #1
"Even if it is recapturing a piece" Ever heard of a Zwischenzug or Intermezzo? You need to check if there are tactics or powerful in-between moves.
lichess.org/practice/basic-tactics/zwischenzug
"Even if it is recapturing a piece" Ever heard of a Zwischenzug or Intermezzo? You need to check if there are tactics or powerful in-between moves.
lichess.org/practice/basic-tactics/zwischenzug
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