Was World War 2 necessary? (Like Americans joining the war?)

@MORDREDKOMA said ^

I feel like you should experience a day in a colonised country, then you will understand.

visit scotland. or ireland or wales. we hate england too.

Yes, then, throw a revolution, everybody say, we don’t want England in the map, we are not the colonies of England, it is ironic that I am speaking English, but you won’t understand Hindi, you haven’t bothered to learn Hindi, I am talking to the Eng fan, who tries to justify all their shitty actions, we need to isolate England and the first step is to, rally, the Scottish irish and Welsh.

@Rage698 said ^

@Rage698

Okay at this point you're just ragebaiting me with strawmen but it just so happens that I'll be cramming for history exams tomorrow...so you can get your response then, complete with screenshots of the official curriculum :)

Straw men, rage, baiting, wow. What an accusation., you don’t care about the 3 million people that died. Due to the Bengal famine, if the truth is a straw man argument, And you guys can just use, whatever others did to justify your wrong. How immoral is that?, It’s not an exclamation., just tell me how immoral is that?

What do you think is more disrespectful, Rage? You bringing up atrocities like these famines and the horrors of imperialism as pawns to use as arguments instead of legitimately answering my points (and also completely ignoring the fact that if you actually read my original posts I clearly acknowledged all of this before you even brought it up) or me pointing out that it's a red herring combined with a strawman of my original arguments?

I said I wouldn't respond till tomorrow but if there's one thing I'll say now it's this: just because a statement is true doesn't mean it contributes anything to an argument. Purposely trying to turn this into an imperialism debate so you can frame my points as pro-imperialism is odd at best and dishonest at worst.

ETA: To your whole oppression argument -- although I obviously have not been through what you have, I don't think either of us has suffered the oppression our ancestors have (as mentioned before, I'm Chinese American so I do have ancestry in the Opium Wars, treaties, etc.) and I don't think we should try to excessively draw that connection either as over time it desensitizes people to the reality of colonization. Of course, racism still abounds. Even in my big progressive city I was still subject to a 30 minute rant by a racist lady over how she wished I was raped because I have melanin and that's apparently a sin (I was doing a last minute photography assignment and didn't really have the option to leave). However, I don't think that these experiences, or the expeiences of ancestors, should be used in debates that do not pertain to them. It cheapens everything, frankly.

Now I will only use England from now onwards, England , France, and Hitler are responsible for the war. The French will get partial blame.

"that the nazi party name has "socialist" in it does not mean they were actually socialist"

• They were. They gave jobs to the unemployed. They did that by large public works on highways and on the military, funded by deficit spending, typical socialist practice, encouraged by John Maynard Keynes. The Volkswagen available for each worker from Kraft durch Freude and not for the elite is socialist. The newspaper of Hitler was Der völkische Beobachter, the observer of the people. Hitler started his speeches about the Versailles treaty to fellow construction workers.

"Mussolini was at first a member of the socialist party"

• And then he evolved to fascist.
  Some people say that Stalinism was fascism evolved from socialism/communism.

"Mussolini's first names"

• Prove that his parents were fanatic socialists.

@greenteakitten said ^

@Rage698

Okay at this point you're just ragebaiting me with strawmen but it just so happens that I'll be cramming for history exams tomorrow...so you can get your response then, complete with screenshots of the official curriculum :)

Straw men, rage, baiting, wow. What an accusation., you don’t care about the 3 million people that died. Due to the Bengal famine, if the truth is a straw man argument, And you guys can just use, whatever others did to justify your wrong. How immoral is that?, It’s not an exclamation., just tell me how immoral is that?

What do you think is more disrespectful, Rage? You bringing up atrocities like these famines and the horrors of imperialism as pawns to use as arguments instead of legitimately answering my points (and also completely ignoring the fact that if you actually read my original posts I clearly acknowledged all of this before you even brought it up) or me pointing out that it's a red herring combined with a strawman of my original arguments?

I said I wouldn't respond till tomorrow but if there's one thing I'll say now it's this: just because a statement is true doesn't mean it contributes anything to an argument. Purposely trying to turn this into an imperialism debate so you can frame my points as pro-imperialism is odd at best and dishonest at worst.

Famine happened during World War II, and it was due to the actions of the English , which were completely preventable.
Secondly, the world wars, were related to imperialism, the colonies were formed due to imperialism, and capitalism.
The colonies played a big role in, the victory of the allies,so how can you disregard imperialism at all?
Living space, was the reason Germany invaded Russia, that is also a part of imperialism, framing it as a living space.
The treaty of Versailles was caused by ww1 which was caused by imperial ambitions.

@tpr said ^

"that the nazi party name has "socialist" in it does not mean they were actually socialist"

• They were. They gave jobs to the unemployed. They did that by large public works on highways and on the military, funded by deficit spending, typical socialist practice, encouraged by John Maynard Keynes. The Volkswagen available for each worker from Kraft durch Freude and not for the elite is socialist. The newspaper of Hitler was Der völkische Beobachter, the observer of the people. Hitler started his speeches about the Versailles treaty to fellow construction workers.

"Mussolini was at first a member of the socialist party"

• And then he evolved to fascist.
  Some people say that Stalinism was fascism evolved from socialism/communism.

"Mussolini's first names"

• Prove that his parents were fanatic socialists.

Yes, but they were more nationalist than socialist, current social won’t approve of living. Space, nor will nationalists , so it was fascism more than anything
Stalinism was fascism evolved from communism, yes, Partially, it was socialism in Name, but all power belonged to one person, and the state was superior to everything else.

@greenteakitten said ^

@Rage698

Okay at this point you're just ragebaiting me with strawmen but it just so happens that I'll be cramming for history exams tomorrow...so you can get your response then, complete with screenshots of the official curriculum :)

Straw men, rage, baiting, wow. What an accusation., you don’t care about the 3 million people that died. Due to the Bengal famine, if the truth is a straw man argument, And you guys can just use, whatever others did to justify your wrong. How immoral is that?, It’s not an exclamation., just tell me how immoral is that?

What do you think is more disrespectful, Rage? You bringing up atrocities like these famines and the horrors of imperialism as pawns to use as arguments instead of legitimately answering my points (and also completely ignoring the fact that if you actually read my original posts I clearly acknowledged all of this before you even brought it up) or me pointing out that it's a red herring combined with a strawman of my original arguments?

I said I wouldn't respond till tomorrow but if there's one thing I'll say now it's this: just because a statement is true doesn't mean it contributes anything to an argument. Purposely trying to turn this into an imperialism debate so you can frame my points as pro-imperialism is odd at best and dishonest at worst.

ETA: To your whole oppression argument -- although I obviously have not been through what you have, I don't think either of us has suffered the oppression our ancestors have (as mentioned before, I'm Chinese American so I do have ancestry in the Opium Wars, treaties, etc.) and I don't think we should try to excessively draw that connection either as over time it desensitizes people to the reality of colonization. Of course, racism still abounds. Even in my big progressive city I was still subject to a 30 minute rant by a racist lady over how she wished I was raped because I have melanin and that's apparently a sin (I was doing a last minute photography assignment and didn't really have the option to leave). However, I don't think that these experiences, or the expeiences of ancestors, should be used in debates that do not pertain to them. It cheapens everything, frankly.

Okay, we should not go so much, let’s keep it at WW2, and imperialism.
But, the amount of suffering caused after World War II, was due to the transition, between colonisation and Decolonisation,tbh people think that they are distant from colonisation, the reality is that we are far closer, to that era.
But if, Mr. Chamberlin had invaded Germany in 1938, the war would have never happened, obviously mass misery would still be there, humanity is just like that, sometimes, but the Holocaust it would have not happened.

Maybe the argument was too heated, let us just say World War II was never necessary.

"if, Mr. Chamberlin had invaded Germany in 1938, the war would have never happened"

• The British Expeditionary Force was sent to France in September 1939 and had to be evacuated from Dunkirk between 26 May and 4 June 1940.

"World War II was never necessary"

• It was avoidable, if only the Versailes Treaty was not so harsh.