The off-topic isn't what it used to be.

I don't think the forums have to be dull. I have experienced great forums in 2022, and great conversations on Lichess in 2022.

The quality of posts is determined by the ability of the people to make quality ...ideas.

I wonder if there's a way to teach people how to create better forum posts.

I think I have the ability to make great, very interesting and constructive posts, but lately many of my posts don't get a lot of thought put into it. So I want to explain some forum concepts.

Looking at many forum arguments nowadays: lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/un-ban-kb it seems like most people also don't think that much. What I mean is that people take time to through through points, create thorough reasoning.

And awhile ago, there was an anonymous survey and most put in that they were a kid. So I think there's a lot of potential for growth here. Here's some tips for people:

Try to figure out and consider what someone else is saying. Example: #12 is saying that
1. "many good forumers are banned or don't post much now" (or something else) isn't a good reason because the reason forums are bad is _everyone's_ dull posts {Sidenote: I think the "because" isn't what #12 meant. This is really two separate statements: #9b isn't a good reason; everyone's making the forums bad}
2. negative aspects of these forums are repeated a lot.

Use the internet (The phrases "google it", "research", "look", and "read" take out most of the trivial posts)
Research, try to find evidence, and then decide.

Biases help for detecting both "I am wrong" and "others are wrong", generally if someone uses biases only against others, learning about biases is bad. And I Just gave you a bias that could easily be misused against everyone. Did you research this paragraph?

If more responses don't help someone understand, try explaining it in different ways, going deeper, asking questions (especially if you don't understand). "is bad" if people are repeating themselves. "is unfortunate" when both sides understand the situation, and the conflict could've been avoided, and I emphasize with both sides but come on... ugh: ("I'm sorry, the small text here says that the discount only applies to select brands." "I know, but that's a rip-off, why would they say etc." "Well you have to check the small text, etc.")

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I don't think these tips are very helpful. But here's a great example of what should not happen: lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/if-you-want-to-play-koth

How do we explain things better? Explain = convey understanding to others

I don't have a solution, but progress can be shown, tracked, and experienced. I think this specific forum post, despite its beginnings, can be a great starting place for advice on making great posts and ideas and revelations about the problem.
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I would also like to take the opportunity to say that I haven't seen evidence for lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/un-ban-kb?page=2#19. With the statement below, I think this is false.

Lichess states at lichess.org/page/play-extensions their reason:
Extensions that assist with playing moves have denatured fast chess to the point that many players won't play it anymore. We believe that banning keyboard extensions will result in UltraBullet and HyperBullet becoming more popular.

Let me tell you, what happened. the old good forumers got life they found something better and interesting to do. and they also realized forums are kinda time pass. oh, yes there was a time when I was called a mighty forumer. Thank god, it's gone. what a bad time it had been in real life.

And then someone once said:- "Nothing lasts forever" nor should the good forums last forever, though a year or 2 is a lot less time compared to forever.

Well. Some forumers who loved forum are chatbanned.

@KiHjJjH said in #24:
> Well. Some forumers who loved forum are chatbanned.

Like whom ;-J

@Pro1234Player said in #1:
> Evidence-
> add steps to improve the condition of the off-topic down below.

who asked?

@BKrivi09 @Sajag_Gupta-8 @Stevobrine
I think #1 needs a clarification notice.

#11 says: "this was to raise awareness to the issue and ask people to try and make it better"

So here's a *new starting post*, which I think is more clear:

The forums are slowly declining in quality. So how can this be stopped? How can we collectively make the forums better?

Something I've noticed:

Usually posts are of the form:
1. inform
--- a. show/tell
--- b. explain/respond*
2. request
3. entertain

I was going to expand on that, but look at these archive.org screenshots!

Here's off-topic today


Here's a screenshot of what the off-topic forum looked like in Aug 12, 2020


And this is in Sep 04, 2017


I think what makes forums "great" is defined how positive the memories are. There's a lot more heart and soul. Golden forum days... looking at these screenshots, I appreciate what's missing. Remember asoninya? I wonder what the posts per <average user creation date> is.




(aug 17 2020)


(now)

Objectively, it would be hard to label the forums in the past good. But for some reason I feel like it was better... can't really explain why though.

www.chess.com/forum/view/community/how-to-become-famous-on-chess-com

Here's an interesting quote: ""The only way to be noticed on the forums is to be very toxic""

1. On average, obviously bad posts are easier to respond to than well thought out posts.
2. Also www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZQG9cwKbct2LtmL3p/evaporative-cooling-of-group-beliefs,

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tl:dr, For example, let's say some people predicted Armageddon on 1896. But there's no armageddon. Now you could think that the group would be destroyed, and indeed some people leave. But some don't. So the average group consensus shifts to more crazy ideas. And the group actually become stronger and more unified, because the people remaining are *really* resilient.

Abstractly, say there's a group of people. Events cause people to leave, which shifts the "remaining consensus" (in this case for worse).

And a comment by buybuydandavis: "When the reasonable people start leaving, the center of mass of the group shifts to wack space."

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This is an interesting explanation, and if this is a major part of the problem, I don't think doing nothing will help.

The only counteraction to the (joke toxic advice from chess.com) I've thought of is to be extremely patient, kind, forgiving, reasonable, responsive, and thoughtful, but this seems impractical, life is often more interesting than this, and most people here are kids (don't have much experience).

So, counteraction 2, come up with topics that are easy to respond to, but generate thought so as to increase the experience of everyone involved.