Four-Check • page 1/2 • Lichess Feedback • lichess.org

It could be interesting to add a new variant, Four-Check. Playing Three-Check with black is no fun, as the starting position is quite bad. At least if white knows what (s)he is doing, which is not always my case. Given that there is quite some opening theory and that it looks very depressing for black, switching to Four-Check would make sense, particularly for those players who are good in Three-Check or in standard chess.

ajedrezconzeta

#2

@RealDavidNavara u can play five check! https://playstrategy.org/

Russian_balalaika

#3

in my opinion, the idea is interesting, at least somehow diversify the game of 3 checks

anuhas_dharana_2010

#4

@RealDavidNavara said in #1:

It could be interesting to add a new variant, Four-Check. Playing Three-Check with black is no fun, as the starting position is quite bad. At least if white knows what (s)he is doing, which is not always my case. Given that there is quite some opening theory and that it looks very depressing for black, switching to Four-Check would make sense, particularly for those players who are good in Three-Check or in standard chess.

Yes It's right and you are a good experience player.

@RealDavidNavara said in #1: > It could be interesting to add a new variant, Four-Check. Playing Three-Check with black is no fun, as the starting position is quite bad. At least if white knows what (s)he is doing, which is not always my case. Given that there is quite some opening theory and that it looks very depressing for black, switching to Four-Check would make sense, particularly for those players who are good in Three-Check or in standard chess. Yes It's right and you are a good experience player.

Chess_Poems

#5

Time control becomes the issue with black's disadvantage. Longer the game, the worse black should end up.

Hyperbullet is likely the most popular TC for a reason. I wouldn't play anything longer than 3+0 (once in a while a 5+0 arena, although i think that's too long)

There is a fair amount of theory, and black's starting position is quite bad after 1.e4. But good players have a lot of ways to equalize as black. The top players seem to do it every game.

This study is pretty comprehensive and was created by myself with the help of a # of others. It started as a rough copy of a study by TCF_namelecc, and has probably turned into the best 3+ variant study on the site.

Everyone is more than welcome to use it! Like it and it will appear in your "favorite studies"

https://lichess.org/study/qqGptMt8

Time control becomes the issue with black's disadvantage. Longer the game, the worse black should end up. Hyperbullet is likely the most popular TC for a reason. I wouldn't play anything longer than 3+0 (once in a while a 5+0 arena, although i think that's too long) There is a fair amount of theory, and black's starting position is quite bad after 1.e4. But good players have a lot of ways to equalize as black. The top players seem to do it every game. This study is pretty comprehensive and was created by myself with the help of a # of others. It started as a rough copy of a study by TCF_namelecc, and has probably turned into the best 3+ variant study on the site. Everyone is more than welcome to use it! Like it and it will appear in your "favorite studies" https://lichess.org/study/qqGptMt8

#6

ChessMathNerd

#7

@RealDavidNavara I am no GM, and despite my not so great three-check rating, I will venture a few thoughts.
I haven't played a lot of three-check but I know a great deal of opening theory, and yes, you have a point, black is much worse, and will always lose against optimal play from white.
However, there are a lot of openings that actually can give black a great position if played correctly. For example, 1. ... Nc6, 1... c6, and a very interesting line, 1... b6. None are best, all are unusual in their own way. The bottom line is that black has to play a little bit of hope chess at the start to get a non mainline position, otherwise he gets crushed, but it is still playable, and in my opinion, not depressing, if you can get an opening your opponent is unfamiliar with.
That said, the more checks you have to get, the closer it becomes to standard chess, which sort of takes away the thrill.
One weird idea is to make white play something besides Nc3 and e4 on his first move, which basically equalizes the game out of the gate, but that doesn't feel right.

@RealDavidNavara I am no GM, and despite my not so great three-check rating, I will venture a few thoughts. I haven't played a lot of three-check but I know a great deal of opening theory, and yes, you have a point, black is much worse, and will always lose against optimal play from white. However, there are a lot of openings that actually can give black a great position if played correctly. For example, 1. ... Nc6, 1... c6, and a very interesting line, 1... b6. None are best, all are unusual in their own way. The bottom line is that black has to play a little bit of hope chess at the start to get a non mainline position, otherwise he gets crushed, but it is still playable, and in my opinion, not depressing, if you can get an opening your opponent is unfamiliar with. That said, the more checks you have to get, the closer it becomes to standard chess, which sort of takes away the thrill. One weird idea is to make white play something besides Nc3 and e4 on his first move, which basically equalizes the game out of the gate, but that doesn't feel right.

ChessMathNerd

#8

@Chess_Poems I tried to make a three-check study, but to be truly comprehensive, it has to be split into about 20 different studies. There are just too many critical lines for both sides, where only one move is good. I ended up making a study for each different position that can arrive after 2 moves by each side.

Cedur216

#9

"possible to equalize" doesn't already imply "fun to play" ...

GM RealDavidNavara

#10

Re ChessPoems:
Yes, I completely agree with you (and with TheKingClash) that the time control plays a big role. That said, I generally (in standard chess as well as in the variants) prefer slower time controls (say, 3+0, 2+1, 3+2 or 5+0, depending on the variant, the opponent and my mood), as the bullet games often end with random moves which are only made to avoid a loss on time. Actually the three-check games do not last as long as standard games, so they do not require that much time. On the other hand, I am not that much accustomed to playing Three-Check, and then it can be tricky with little time left. (Even with white.) I agree with ChessMathNerd that Four-Check would reduce the thrill, or perhaps postpone it somewhat. It would be more similar to standard chess, but Three-Check skills would still be more important there.

Re ChessPoems: Yes, I completely agree with you (and with TheKingClash) that the time control plays a big role. That said, I generally (in standard chess as well as in the variants) prefer slower time controls (say, 3+0, 2+1, 3+2 or 5+0, depending on the variant, the opponent and my mood), as the bullet games often end with random moves which are only made to avoid a loss on time. Actually the three-check games do not last as long as standard games, so they do not require that much time. On the other hand, I am not that much accustomed to playing Three-Check, and then it can be tricky with little time left. (Even with white.) I agree with ChessMathNerd that Four-Check would reduce the thrill, or perhaps postpone it somewhat. It would be more similar to standard chess, but Three-Check skills would still be more important there.