@Prophiscient said in #37:
> Yes, I am a Zionist. I think Israel has a right to exist.
I don't. Israel is a racist, apartheid state that is committing genocide in Gaza. It is a colonial project of western imperialism, first the British, then the Americans. One day it will be gone. For a one state solution - a Palestine where people of all religions or none can live in peace and equality together. Free Palestine!
@stockwellpete
"a Palestine where people of all religions or none can live in peace and equality together. Free Palestine!"
I don't suppose you've looked into the ideology of the elected representatives of the Palestinians. Peace, equality and freedom are not on the menu, not for women, and not for people in general with the wrong religion or none. Why don't you go and live amongst them, then tell us about peace and love.
@coledavis said in #42:
> @stockwellpete
>
> "a Palestine where people of all religions or none can live in peace and equality together. Free Palestine!"
>
> I don't suppose you've looked into the ideology of the elected representatives of the Palestinians. Peace, equality and freedom are not on the menu, not for women, and not for people in general with the wrong religion or none. Why don't you go and live amongst them, then tell us about peace and love.
Israel was meant to be a safe haven for Jews. Why are so many Israeli citizens trying to leave now? Why is the Israeli government trying to stop them? Why are Israeli newspapers producing articles about "escape flotillas" of Israeli citizens clandestinely sailing across to Cyprus to escape Israel? Not going well, is it? The viability of the Zionist project is certainly in question now. The demographics are not favouring its continued long-term existence.
I wrote "a Palestine where people of all religions or none can live in peace and equality together" in order to deal with anyone making the idiotic argument that I must be an anti-semite because I am opposed to the existence of the state of Israel. Jewish people have always lived in the region alongside Christians, Muslims and other religious minorities. And they should continue to do so. But they cannot have their own ethno-state there. Zionism is a racist ideology that privileges Jews over everyone else. It must be defeated and I believe it eventually will be.
My sentence also contains the hope that a socialist society will eventually come about in Palestine. In my view, the liberation of Palestine can only come about as part of a much wider social transformation in the region that will not only see the defeat of the Zionists in Israel, but also the overthrow of the Arab dictatorships and Gulf oil oligarchies as well as the clerical regime in Iran. This could happen in the context of a generalised crisis of capitalism (war, economic crisis, environmental collapse etc) where working class people of the region begin to take power into their own hands. If you look at what happened in many parts of the world after WW1 you can see that this can happen again.
Yes, @stockwellpete
follow the mantra: it's always Israel's fault. Even when it isn't.
ethnostate
hm
I suppose the Armenians are in the wrong. and the French. and the Germans. No, it's Isreal that's the problem. Sorry, but I think you are antisemitic. As in, you make attacks on them that you wouldn't dream of saying about others.
@stockwellpete said in #43:
>
No one wants to be in a potential warzone
Pre-arab nationalist, wahhabist, strict sharia law islam wasn't terrible for Jews in the region, nowadays there is too much vitriol . The mutual distrust is very deep at this point - but ultimately, israel treats its arab citizenry better than I would expect the opposite.
It could happen, but not so easily while both sides adhere to an 'all or nothing' ideology - and there is no denying many have genocidal intent against Israelis though lack the means to do so (not for lack of trying in the past)
@stockwellpete said in #41:
> I don't. Israel is a racist,
Lmao, yeah, Israel is so racist. That's why Palestinians with Israeli citizenship have equal rights but virtually all Jews were expelled from most Muslim countries. I guess it's only a problem when Jews aren't dhimmis?
> apartheid state
Arguably, if you consider the West Bank part of Israel.
> that is committing genocide in Gaza.
Nope. Hamas is free to surrender whenever it wants.
> It is a colonial project of western imperialism,
Haha this is laughably absurd. It was a refuge for Jews who were being killed throughout Europe during the Holocaust and pogroms. If it's a colonial project, then on behalf of what empire or imperialist state?
> first the British, then the Americans.
Haha what? The British defeated the Ottoman Empire and then the Jews and Arabs were supposed to divide Mandatory Palestine according to demographics-based borders which the Arabs rejected and the Jews accepted. And the British and Americans did not help the Jews defend themselves in the 1948 War. Of course Israel and the US are allies now.
> One day it will be gone. For a one state solution - a Palestine where people of all religions or none can live in peace and equality together.
Israel offers equal rights to its citizens. But it doesn't hand out citizenship to everyone.
> Free Palestine!
Israel is a Palestinian state. Am Yisrael Chai :)
@coledavis said in #45:
> ethnostate
> hm
> I suppose the Armenians are in the wrong. and the French. and the Germans. No, it's Isreal that's the problem. Sorry, but I think you are antisemitic. As in, you make attacks on them that you wouldn't dream of saying about others.
Apparently it's only wrong when it's Jews.
@coledavis said in #45:
> ethnostate
> hm
> I suppose the Armenians are in the wrong. and the French. and the Germans. No, it's Isreal that's the problem. Sorry, but I think you are antisemitic. As in, you make attacks on them that you wouldn't dream of saying about others.
There is no equivalence between what Israel is doing - genocide, ethnic cleansing, starvation, completely flattening Gaza - and what happens in the other countries you have mentioned. They don't bomb their own citizens, or try to starve them to death. They are not trying to ethnically cleanse whole areas because they are worried about the long-term viability of their state. They are not ethno-states for goodness sake. Either you don't have any idea about what is really happening in Gaza or you just don't care.
And you also don't seem to understand the difference between anti-Zionism, which is opposition to the colonial project called Israel in Palestine and anti-semitism, which is a generalised hatred of Jewish people. I have marched alongside Jewish people in London against this genocide. I will continue to do so.
Israeli chess players should play under the FIDE flag if Russian players are forced to do so..
@Prophiscient said in #48:
> Apparently it's only wrong when it's Jews.
Zionists, not Jews.
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