What to do VS minority attack?

See thread title :)

What are the normal counter strategies? Sometimes I find that I got nothing going on on the kingside but my c pawn is weak and things go downhill from there. Thanks for any and all advice.

Please post a position where you could find this...?

If you are talking about 'carlsbad structure'. For example from 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.cxd5, and white play b4-b5-bxc6 and put a rook on c1, queen on a4, etc.. wining c6-backward-pawn, the main counter-attack is a kingside attack with pieces! You should try f5-f4 too. But it is possible prepare Nd6 and follow with b7-b5 and Nc4 blocking c-file. Other plan would be answer b4-b5 with c5 (in this case d5 pawn is weak).

From white perspective all moves are easy find, but black need pay attention to move order. In each white move you should understand which black plan is better. For example, if white dont control e4 very well, you can play Ne4 and after exchanges in e4 you have a 'grip' there and you can play f5-f4 and can use a piece-play on kingside (sacs in h3, etc..).

Youtube should have many videos about 'carlsbad structure'...

I would recommend study some model games. Look HOW black win against carlsbad structure. You can try some ideas against stockfish too. Stockfish make accuracy moves, you would play that moves and see what stockfish do. Play some 'neutral' moves and observe how stockfish make progress! Something like: "what would SF do if I dont make NOTHING?", that answer would be the main objective, no? After that, try some idea with white and look HOW SF delay the main plan to stop you, etc... Not hard at all, but it would be a little boring: learn directlly from other smart player is more fast!

Thanks, how about the structure in French where black takes on e4 (3...de 4 N:e4) ?

Black then plays ...c5 at some point, and if I take dc (not sure if this is correct thing to do) black has minority attack, especially if I have a pawn on c3, but there aren’t any center pawns.

Not sure what good white plans are in that (Rubinstein?) version of the French.

I know little about 4-2 vs 3-3 structure, but fight on center play the main role. Black cant win a typical 4vs3 on same side rook endgame ! that means white don't need defend the last pawn by making big activity concessions . it is a strategical draw I guess..

But that structure is consequence from carokann, Scandinavian, etc, structure, there are rich strategic fight before c5. For example, white can play c4-c5 or c4-d5. If black can play c5 I think it equalizes , no? White cant avoid c5 anyway, but that mean a stable center with piece play is more important than pawn play...

Soltis book about pawn structure or Mauricio flores book touch that theme; good studies for you!

You cannot "counter" a minority attack. Because there are half-open files against you. Only open files can be used by yourself. So, waiting is not sufficient normally. You have to attack on the other wing for example. Michael Stean stunning "Simple chess" deals with that topic.

May I quote "Simple Chess", the famous book by M. Stean? Believe it or not, it's 40 years old! Could be written yesterday.

"Minority attacks derive from the Pawn structure, Pawn structures derive from the opening. Go back to the eras of Capablanca and Alekhine and you will see Queen's Gambits, hoards of them, with hoards of minority attacks descending from them. Nowadays [1978; still relevant] the Sicilian Defense is all the rage. Sicilians here, Sicilians there, Sicilians absolutely everywhere. Why this saturation with Sicilians? Does the Mafia's influence really extend this far? The answer lies in the minority attack. The whole idea of the Sicilian is for Black to trade his c Pawn for the d Pawn. White almost invariably obliges: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 (or d6 or e6 or g6) 3.d4 cxd4, when Black immediately arrives at a minority attack Pawn structure. Half-open c file, extra central pawn, 2-3 minority on the Queenside; these are all the necessary ingredients. Sounds infallible, so where's the snag? Why doesn't Black win every game? The problem is of course that White has a lead in development in the early stages, which may prove difficult to survive. Black's prospects lie later in the game when the winds of White's initiative have blown themselves out."
The structural weaknesses White accepts because he is trying to avoid Black's plan to launch a minority attack to get a winning endgame and must attack. They are not the cause of Black having winning endgames (otherwise White wouldn't weaken his position in such a way); merely they are a symptom of him having to attack the Black King. The root cause of this is the minority attack, and this is why most Sicilian endgames are winning for him. The minority attack is also a theme in any Rook endgames, so it's not just a late middlegame idea."

@Sarg0n 2-4 vs 3-3 structure allow a minority attack for black (2 vs 3 on queenside). White cant make the same on kingisde because king safety issues.

But we should remember if black push his pawns and exchange they, suppose black isolate the last white pawn we have a 0-4 vs 1-3 structure, but black will win that isolated pawn by force. Howrewer, a rook edngame with 4 pawns vs. 3 on same side is drawish!

When the center is open like in scandinavian or caro-kan strucutes where white d-pawn and black c-pawn dont exist more, the mai role are on center and piece activity. I would to say white have majority on queenside which is a advantage in endgames because a 'outisde passed-pawn theme.

Minority attack in that strcutre is not a issue, not a strong strategic theme I think.

From Mauricio Flores Rios "Chess Structures - a Grandmaster Guide":

"Te 3-3 vs. 4-2 structure is very common.
It typically arises fom the Caro-Kann or Slav
structures studied in Chapters 3 and 4. In the CaroKann we obtain this structure once Black plays
...c5 and White captures dxc5 . In the Slav it occurs
afer Black plays . . .e5 and White replies de5. Note
that in the second case we reach this structure with
reversed colours. Tis structure may also arise fom
the Scheveningen Sicilian, as we will discuss later
in this chapter. Te fct that this position is open
allows fr massive piece exchanges and it is quite
common fr players of all levels to agree to a draw
upon arriving at this structure, just because of its
seemingly drawish nature. Nevertheless, both sides
have some ambitious plans."

"Wite's plans
1 . Control the d-fle and use it fr a seventh-rank
invasion if possible.
2. Pursue a majorit atack. Tat is, advance the
queenside pawns to create a passed pawn.
Blacks plans
1 . Control the d-fle and use it fr a seventh-rank
invasion if possible.
2. Pursue a minorit atack with . . .a7-a5 and
. . .b7-b5-b4. If this plan is successfl Black will
probably eliminate White's a-, b-, and c-pawns
using his a- and b-pawns. Tereupon Black
will attempt to win an endgame with 4 vs. 3
kingside pawns."

Black 2nd plan, howrewer, is less dangerous because try win 4 vs 3 on same side is very very hard to convert, maybe in minor pieces endgame...rooke ndgame are theoretical draw for example...

the main plan for both sides are on center...

I'm talking about that specific minority attack plan from 2-4 vs 3-3. Carlsbad strucutre, for example (exchange variation on QGD), the center is closed, white have two center pawns avoiding "massive piece exchanges [Flores, 2015]. In this case minority attack are more dangerous and black NEED counter-attack that with active play on kingside. But with center open, it is very hard kingside attack or any long term strategy like 'pawn major/mino rity" because the players are occupied exchange pieces on open files...

Of course, I'm talking about scientific and next to perfect play... Weak players like we anything is possible in any position... A good player would win a weak player 4 times by using 1st and 2nd plan for white and 1st and 2nd plan for black! Interesting would make a experiment where a strong player show how to win using different plans in specific pawn-structures against weak players... (a tip for youtube videos!)

A well-timed b2-b4, Nb3, Nc5 works in some cases to shut down black's queenside play. You can also always just play on the kingside with Ne5, f4-f5, rook lifts, etc. There are also some positions where you can prepare to meet ...b4 with c4, though this is less common.

There's also always the question, after black plays 1...b5 for the minority attack, if you want to include the moves 2. a3 a5, leading to the a-pawns getting exchanged. Pro: One less weak pawn of yours on the queenside after black plays ...b4 and pawns are exchanged. Con: Black now has access to the b3 square, which often finds itself occupied by a black rook to attack your soon-to-be-weak c3 pawn!

(Of course, mirror everything if white is the one minority-attacking with b2-b4-b5. This is written from the perspective of facing a black minority attack with b7-b5-b4)

Hope this helped! Possibly a good idea for a future advanced strategy video for my website: Chesspathways.com :)

@BlakeyBChess do you know the term 'tabiah'?

"A tabiya is a position that has arisen after a couple of moves, in which the pawn structure is showing a number of typical features. On the basis of this pawn formation we can derive plans and concepts that are typical for this structure." [Groten, 2019]

I think the main problem for club players is know what to do AFTER theys reach that typical postions AND know theys are in a typical position too.

After I read something about isolated pawns (isolani), I begin see that my opponents (a weak ones) allow exchange of minor pieces and dont understand he/she MUST play for a 'checkmate' using king's bishop, queen and rook-lifts and CANT exchange that pieces.

My own play are more guided too, I dont make silly and temporary threats more, I look for a endgame!

I think you would be VERY VERY susscessfull if you talk and teach about that themes deepilly. Sometime strong players dont teach in that fashion because they like gain money for teach, and those who like teach 'for free' are not too strong... But you would make the difference! I dont talk about that in videos because I dont have time or equipament (mic, for example).

Purely in a pawn structure sense after white plays b4 you can play b5 and try to land a knight in on c4. however that plan is just as situational as the minority attack itself