Proctor

@Druismat said in #9:
> I would give up all my privacy if...

so you're ok with your car or health insurance doubling because insurance companies bought data that suggests you are high risk? you don't know what the data is, where the data came from, or if the data is accurate.

I think basically all car makers have been sued multiple times in multiple countries for selling data to insurance companies. they don't always lose.

> the future...

it's now the future, you don't know what data exists about you, who has it, governments? health and car insurance companies? banks? since you don't know what data exists about you, you don't know if there are mistakes, you don't know who has it, and you can't have it deleted.

I get the "I'm doing nothing wrong so I have nothing to hide" argument, but I think privacy has big implications and is more important than a fair game of chess.

Oops, privacy is a sensitive subject. Not to me, but to many. My data will not be very interesting. No car and never bought anything online. I have no phone, and the laptop I write on has only poems by me and a Google link to Lichess. In general, I do not trust chess com because of the making money part, and when I say some sort of spyware, I do not mean giving full control. I was just thinking of solutions and I really understand that people cherish their privacy. I cherish chess with my whole heart, and those who cheat against me break my heart...

@Druismat said in #12:
> when I say some sort of spyware, I do not mean giving full control
This is part of the problem: it's not only privacy but also security. Most of these tools (similar tools are used e.g. for online gaming or online exams), in order to be efficient and reliable, require rights that go far beyond "only" spying. And being blackboxes, you have no idea what they actually access and what they do. Of course, chess-com says "Proctor" only collects and sends this and this - but how do you know it's all it does and all it ever will? You have no way to check.

iam data protection officer (since 2005) and manager for information security.

i visit chess dot com to read about procter. the given information are not sufficent to be GDPR compliant.
i take a look to the privacy statement. its outdated, partly wrong and contains nothing about procter.
i downloaded the software ChessProctor_1.01.exe. copyrighted by eduswitch solution (mumbai india).
the software includes a AI component, which keeps all collected data (training the AI) for an unknown period.
no explanation for this period on chess dot com or eduswitch solution.

the software comes as an executable file!? iam speechless.
as @mkubecek mentioned: installing this software is horrible.

@Druismat said in #12:
> My data will not be very interesting.

people who say that kind of stuff usually have no idea what kind of data would be interesting to companies.

for example:

> No car and never bought anything online. I have no phone

this is *extremely* interesting data already, that could absolutely haunt you.

@mkubecek said in #13:
> This is part of the problem: it's not only privacy but also security. Most of these tools (similar tools are used e.g. for online gaming or online exams), in order to be efficient and reliable, require rights that go far beyond "only" spying. And being blackboxes, you have no idea what they actually access and what they do. Of course, chess-com says "Proctor" only collects and sends this and this - but how do you know it's all it does and all it ever will? You have no way to check.

Only way I would install that would be a virtual machine having only that one thing running there. Like some people used todo on poker sites. I guess the detect and block virtual machines now. but NoWayInHell i will give full access to some program any online game

@Mkubecek I absolutely agree with you!

The more people start boycotting these gross violations of privacy and ask for alternative solutions instead, the better. Alas, not so many have done it yet. People aren't realizing what's been going on. Most are ready to sacrifice it all, to agree to the normalization of the Orwellian (or even worse) surveillance. For what? For their short-term comfort, or for some prize money (if lucky), or simply to feed their gaming mania.

I for one have qualified here on Lichess (lichess.org/swiss/YKlqUicw) to the knockout qualifier to the FIDE Fischer Random World Chess Championship 2022, where I was paired against Nakamura. Then, as far as I remember, shortly before the start the organizers amended the rules, saying that everyone would need two cameras (not one frontal camera), screen sharing, audio sharing, and all other kinds of security checks when deemed necessary (at the players' own home and at their own expense, the data to be watched and saved by some unknown people and used in unknown ways).

Do you seriouly think that all these inspections could stop a sophisticated cheater - without the physical inspection? Remember the Mechanical Turk story back in 1770s? People were allowed to inspect it closely, and even so, for many years people believed it was a machine! When about the situation when the physical inspection is ruled out, then?
But what these inspections REALLY do is depriving honest players (99% I believe) of their privacy and instilling a sense of uneasiness into them. "Big Brother is watching you! Get accustomed to it! This is the New Normal!"

I love chess960 and I do lack good chess960 tournaments, but I gave it a thought and refused to play in the knockout (giving the organizers my reasoning). I was replaced by Andy Woodward. Alas, no one paid attention. Well, so be it - I've done what I think was right and my conscience is clear.

I could agree to video surveillance, screen sharing, etc. ONLY if I play from some kind of a chess/gaming club/studio from some other computer - but not from my own computer and my own home, because "My home is my fortress". Too bad that people give up this basic principle of a free society so easily.

@glbert said in #15:
> people who say that kind of stuff usually have no idea what kind of data would be interesting to companies.

lol I am very curious which companies would have interest in a non consuming man who only travels on a secondhand bike and gets his clothes in secondhand shops. I never had any message on any source from any company and my email is only to acces lichess
Even if there were companies interested they have no way to reach me, I am far from blind regarding data and big data and I know the business behind it and that is about money spending consumers
The most expensive thing I ever bought was a leather bal in 1985 for 30 gulden aprox 15 euro

@Druismat said in #18:
> Even if there were companies interested they have no way to reach me

not yet! but since:

@Druismat said in #9:
> I would give up all my privacy if it secured that I was playing against a fair player.

there's a good chance you will find out who was interested in your data once it's too late.

> about money spending consumers

not all companies are about consumers. most certainly not all companies in the data business.

edit: the irony in this of course is that giving up your privacy will likely not do all that much to ensure you are playing against a fair player.

@Druismat said in #9:
>I would give up all my privacy if it secured that I was playing against a fair player.
Maybe I should have said on Lichess because again I definitely do not trust chess com