Let's remove "Late-compensating points" • page 1/2 • Lichess Feedback • lichess.org

Hi, and I want to say my opinion.

I saw many players who "late". Many players join the Swiss tournament after the first round and get a 0.5 points-which is safe.
Of course, players can be late because of homework, or having breakfast, lunch, dinner, by a phone call, etc. However, too many players join the tournament at the same time. Not once, I saw these situations many times as I joined the Swiss tournament. This isn't "fortune". This was previously ready. For example, see this tournament: https://lichess.org/swiss/stzJZmLq
15 of 27 players joined "late". This compensating system is used badly. So, I say that Lichess should remove "Late-compensating system".

If you think as same as me, please click heart! If you disagree with my opinion, please reply to this forum.

Hi, and I want to say my opinion. I saw many players who "late". Many players join the Swiss tournament after the first round and get a 0.5 points-which is safe. Of course, players can be late because of homework, or having breakfast, lunch, dinner, by a phone call, etc. However, too many players join the tournament at the same time. Not once, I saw these situations many times as I joined the Swiss tournament. This isn't "fortune". This was previously ready. For example, see this tournament: https://lichess.org/swiss/stzJZmLq 15 of 27 players joined "late". This compensating system is used badly. So, I say that Lichess should remove "Late-compensating system". If you think as same as me, please click heart! If you disagree with my opinion, please reply to this forum.

mkubecek

#2

I suppose many players who join late can be simply players who did not plan to join in advance but didn't make it for first round but rather players who only learned about the tournament while it was already running. Also, there are very different types of swiss tournaments, e.g. classical time control ones which have one round per day or per week; not being able to play the first round because of a conflict with other activities is much more likely there.

What I don't understand, though, is the frequent pattern of users who join a tournament (usually after round 1) but then do not actually play any game. I can imagine that someone wants to join but then changes their plans - but it seems to happen way too often. (For instance, there are 4 such users in the tournament linked in comment #1.)

I suppose many players who join late can be simply players who did not plan to join in advance but didn't make it for first round but rather players who only learned about the tournament while it was already running. Also, there are very different types of swiss tournaments, e.g. classical time control ones which have one round per day or per week; not being able to play the first round because of a conflict with other activities is much more likely there. What I don't understand, though, is the frequent pattern of users who join a tournament (usually after round 1) but then do not actually play any game. I can imagine that someone wants to join but then changes their plans - but it seems to happen way too often. (For instance, there are 4 such users in the tournament linked in comment #1.)

somerapidplayer

#3

I think it's great that players get a half-point bye after joining late for a round; it makes the pairings more fair.

nadjarostowa

#4

We have seen this discusssion before, and I still believe the late-joins are mostly due to visibility: Once the tournament starts, it is visible at the top part of the swiss tourneys list. Before, it is deep down, buried within others. So you are much more likely to find a running tournament than an upcoming one.

And there are people joining in later rounds as well, and early leavers...

My guess is that that number of people who actually do this on purpose for tactical reasons is extremely small. And I doubt it realistically improves your chances a lot.

We have seen this discusssion before, and I still believe the late-joins are mostly due to visibility: Once the tournament starts, it is visible at the top part of the swiss tourneys list. Before, it is deep down, buried within others. So you are much more likely to find a running tournament than an upcoming one. And there are people joining in later rounds as well, and early leavers... My guess is that that number of people who actually do this on purpose for tactical reasons is extremely small. And I doubt it realistically improves your chances a lot.

somerapidplayer

edited

#5

It would worsen your chances in most situations imo, bad tiebreaks, and only half a point in r1.

SimonBirch

#6

@chessjun1234 said in #1:

It's ridiculous that they half a point up on me for being late , totally ******* ridiculous , couldn't agree more xxx

@chessjun1234 said in #1: > It's ridiculous that they half a point up on me for being late , totally ******* ridiculous , couldn't agree more xxx

somerapidplayer

#7

If they don't deserve the half point, they'll lose their games and go to the bottom regardless. What about a top seed joining a round late? It's not exactly fair to start them on 0 points.

chessjun1234

#8

@somerapidplayer said in #3:

I think it's great that players get a half-point bye after joining late for a round; it makes the pairings more fair.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Then, How about giving players points for the joining round?
For example, who joined in round 1, we shouldn't give them any points.
However, who joined in round 2, we can give them 0.5 points.
Continues, round 3:1pt, round 4:1.5pts, round 5 or after:2pts.....

This can reduce "readyed late" and compensate for late users.

@somerapidplayer said in #3: > I think it's great that players get a half-point bye after joining late for a round; it makes the pairings more fair. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Then, How about giving players points for the joining round? For example, who joined in round 1, we shouldn't give them any points. However, who joined in round 2, we can give them 0.5 points. Continues, round 3:1pt, round 4:1.5pts, round 5 or after:2pts..... This can reduce "readyed late" and compensate for late users.

chessjun1234

#9

@lichess

Lichess admins should deeply discuss about this forum. When I joined the tournament, the number of players who already joined before the tournament was only 10~15. After starting the round 1, the number of players suddenely increased to 25~30, like they are prepared to join the tournament with lating '''one second'''. This happens to Swiss system. This is unfair.

@lichess Lichess admins should deeply discuss about this forum. When I joined the tournament, the number of players who already joined before the tournament was only 10~15. After starting the round 1, the number of players suddenely increased to 25~30, like they are prepared to join the tournament with lating '''one second'''. This happens to Swiss system. This is unfair.

nadjarostowa

#10

Well, maybe you should play and look at some swiss tournaments, and you'll see that it apparently is no problem at all.

I had a look at your last three swiss tournaments (which are quite a while back):

https://lichess.org/swiss/stzJZmLq
The top two players had a 1/2-point-bye in the first round, but given their rating, they would have faced much weaker opponents, and would have started with a full point instead - much more promising if you want to win a tournament as a stronger player.
https://lichess.org/swiss/stzJZmLqJ
Just look at the table. This is not decided by that 1/2 point at all. The top players didn't even play all rounds. And you, too, got 1/2 point in first round, and quit early...
https://lichess.org/swiss/UBwq52Zq
Again, no influence on the top places.

And I can only repeat myself: I think you get the motivation for late-joining very much wrong. It's a matter of noticing in time when a tournament starts, not playing another game at that time, seeing it in the list, and also (though this is somewhat of a recursive argument) attractiveness... a tournament with only few players signed up is much less inviting than one where more people are participating - and this number grows by the late-joiners.

Also, people late-join all the time, everywhere. Just look at the arenas. Do you have a compelling argument there as well? ;-)

Well, maybe you should play and look at some swiss tournaments, and you'll see that it apparently is no problem at all. I had a look at your last three swiss tournaments (which are quite a while back): 1. https://lichess.org/swiss/stzJZmLq The top two players had a 1/2-point-bye in the first round, but given their rating, they would have faced much weaker opponents, and would have started with a full point instead - much more promising if you want to win a tournament as a stronger player. 2. https://lichess.org/swiss/stzJZmLqJ Just look at the table. This is not decided by that 1/2 point at all. The top players didn't even play all rounds. And you, too, got 1/2 point in first round, and quit early... 3. https://lichess.org/swiss/UBwq52Zq Again, no influence on the top places. And I can only repeat myself: I think you get the motivation for late-joining very much wrong. It's a matter of noticing in time when a tournament starts, not playing another game at that time, seeing it in the list, and also (though this is somewhat of a recursive argument) attractiveness... a tournament with only few players signed up is much less inviting than one where more people are participating - and this number grows by the late-joiners. Also, people late-join all the time, everywhere. Just look at the arenas. Do you have a compelling argument there as well? ;-)