How do you feel about "Mahatma" Ghandi?

Let me start by saying that I respect and admire his peaceful way of protesting, that said, he had some ideologies that are far cry from promoting peace, his racism and misogyny among them.

While a young lawyer in South Africa, Gandhi produced many writings that requested a separate entrance for Indians so that he would not have to share one with black South Africans, used racial slurs liberally, and advocated for the recognition of the Indo-Aryan race, which he deemed to be superior to other races.

It is well documented that he asked his underage grand-niece to sleep beside him, to test if he could control his urges, a deeply pedophilia action.

I seem to be in the minority here, which doesn't trouble me, when I say that Gandhi is not the great leader he is made out to be.

As I said, I admire his peaceful protests, but these alone certainly do not qualify him, in my opinion, to be considered one of the great martyrs for liberty. I am aware that he has done much more for his nation than I've credited him, yet there are also more troubling ideologies of his that I've left out.

https://blogs.cornell.edu/issues/2021/12/06/the-great-soul-gandhi-the-father-of-india-gandhi-the-misogynist-and-gandhi-the-racist/

Like all countries who have rejected the largesse of Great Britain, India is in despair.

Ghandi is a complex character, and his thinking has very positive aspects as well as more negative ones, subject to controversy. his fight for the independence of India was a major event in the history of the country and the Asian continent.

nevertheless, in his youth he maintained racist theories, participated in the repression of the Zulu (even if it was as a doctor), and during a good part of his life, he had the most shocking behavior with women, notably the story about his great-niece.

If it wasn't for all that, he would have been perfect. but he was Ghandi, and if we can admit a possible repentance on racist theses, the rest is difficult to admit and to forgive.

@UnifiedHeron2, must we agree that sleeping with women is a bad thing? Okay, I suppose it depends upon the context. Cheating on one's wife, for example, I would agree is "bad." I would hope that each wife ends up being cherished by her husband.

As for the African enslavement that you reference -- could you provide a bit more explanation? Gandhi was born in 1869. And Britain's parliament created the Slavery Abolition Act in 1833, I believe.

That Act (to the limited extent that I know about it) admittedly did abolish slavery "gradually." But I've always thought that Britain managed to abolish it completely BEFORE the American Civil War in the early 1860s, and therefore before Gandhi's birth. Is that incorrect?

I'm genuinely curious to have more detail, if it's available, about what Gandhi said, if anything, about African slavery.

It's hard to imagine him favoring it, since he seemed to be a wise and empathetic soul. I certainly hope he did not favor it. I think we can all agree that it WAS bad.

@Noflaps said in #24:

@UnifiedHeron2, must we agree that sleeping with women is a bad thing? Okay, I suppose it depends upon the context. Cheating on one's wife, for example, I would agree is "bad." I would hope that each wife ends up being cherished by her husband.

As for the African enslavement that you reference -- could you provide a bit more explanation? Gandhi was born in 1869. And Britain's parliament created the Slavery Abolition Act in 1833, I believe.

That Act (to the limited extent that I know about it) admittedly did abolish slavery "gradually." But I've always thought that Britain managed to abolish it completely BEFORE the American Civil War in the early 1860s, and therefore before Gandhi's birth. Is that incorrect?

I'm genuinely curious to have more detail, if it's available, about what Gandhi said, if anything, about African slavery.

It's hard to imagine him favoring it, since he seemed to be a wise and empathetic soul. I certainly hope he did not favor it. I think we can all agree that it WAS bad.

It’s not about slavery. Ghandi worked in South Africa in the years 1890-1920 and reportedly considered that Indians should not be treated in the same way as Africans... because Ghandi considered Africans to be inferior to Indians and said racist things at the highest level in his letters.

at this time he more cared about himself and just began to get involved in favor of India, even if it was on the side of Hindus and not on the side of a multicultural India.

he was also in favor of the repression of the Zulus and the local populations of South and Southeast Africa and set up an Indian expeditionary force to fight or serve on the 2nd line.

nevertheless I am not a specialist in the biography of Mahatma Gandhi, and as I said in my previous message, he is a complex character who has traveled a lot, seen a lot...

but there are disturbing details about his life.

That was quite helpful, @CSKA_Moscou .

I'm sorry to hear Gandhi was not more empathetic and far-seeing at the time he thought in such fashion. I hope he did so only when he was younger, since he was in other ways so wise and kindly that I imagine him likely to have outgrown any youthful mistakes. After all, youthful mistakes are often made but usually left behind, eventually.

It's why so many young people might look back later upon some of what they are now perfectly certain about and think: "what was I thinking?" If they (and we) are lucky, that is.

I played 1 e4 exclusively for several years. Now I look back and think: what was I thinking?

@HiramHolidy, I fear that if India had not left British domination, we could never have experienced the wonder and delight of Bollywood.

(No disrespect intended, by the way: and apologies and acknowledgment to any who prefer the term Hindi Cinema).

@Noflaps said in #26:

That was quite helpful, @CSKA_Moscou .

I'm sorry to hear Gandhi was not more empathetic and far-seeing at the time he thought in such fashion. I hope he did so only when he was younger, since he was in other ways so wise and kindly that I imagine him likely to have outgrown any youthful mistakes. After all, youthful mistakes are often made but usually left behind, eventually.

It's why so many young people might look back later upon some of what they are now perfectly certain about and think: "what was I thinking?" If they (and we) are lucky, that is.

I played 1 e4 exclusively for several years. Now I look back and think: what was I thinking?

I don't think he openly apologized for his racist comments, but in any case, towards the end of his life, his position evolved and it would seem that he erased some of his prejudices about Africans.

Sad that he didn't see the civil rights movement or meet Luther King, I think he could have become even wiser.

@Noflaps said in #24:

@UnifiedHeron2, must we agree that sleeping with women is a bad thing? Okay, I suppose it depends upon the context. Cheating on one's wife, for example, I would agree is "bad." I would hope that each wife ends up being cherished by her husband.

As for the African enslavement that you reference -- could you provide a bit more explanation? Gandhi was born in 1869. And Britain's parliament created the Slavery Abolition Act in 1833, I believe.

That Act (to the limited extent that I know about it) admittedly did abolish slavery "gradually." But I've always thought that Britain managed to abolish it completely BEFORE the American Civil War in the early 1860s, and therefore before Gandhi's birth. Is that incorrect?

I'm genuinely curious to have more detail, if it's available, about what Gandhi said, if anything, about African slavery.

It's hard to imagine him favoring it, since he seemed to be a wise and empathetic soul. I certainly hope he did not favor it. I think we can all agree that it WAS bad.
they were underaged girls he was sleeping with too

Well, @UnifiedHeron2 , if that's true I'm sorry to hear it and don't condone it.

Since you said "women" I assumed they were older and that the relationships were consensual, since I can't imagine him forcing himself upon a woman.

I wonder if he played chess. That could have kept him productively occupied in his leisure hours, doing something that's at least somewhat respectable.

In any event, thanks for responding.