In OTB games, players are required to record their moves, that makes flagging very possible (especially in games with no increment). I start to think about this problem after some dirty flagging games by myself. For example, in an anonymous game (played by me), in this position, lichess.org/analysis/fromPosition/2k5/p1n5/P1N5/K3N3/8/8/8/8_b_-_-_4_62, black played Nxa6, I obviously played Kxa6, Black flagged. It's not declared a draw because help mates exist (like black promoting to a bishop and smother himself), but that requires some next level blunders by both sides. (Why would I let black promote?) If it were an OTB game, black flags, black is still considered lost. Flagging in normal positions is reasonable, but flagging in dead drawn positions like that is very unethical. So are there any rules in OTB tournaments against "dirty flagging" in totally drawn endgames?
Hi,
As far as I understand it is not required to write down the moves for blitz (and rapid?) games, only in classical time control. On the other hand if one makes an illegal move that player loses immediately. But yes, whose time run out first loses. :)
As far as I understand it is not required to write down the moves for blitz (and rapid?) games, only in classical time control. On the other hand if one makes an illegal move that player loses immediately. But yes, whose time run out first loses. :)
If nothing else, the 50 move rule states that either player can claim a draw if there are no captures or pawn moves in the past 50 moves. Obviously you can't play 50 moves in time trouble with a time control with no increment or delay, but there's really no other solution to this, which is a reason why I think all tournaments with classical time controls should have some kind of increment or delay.
There is no such thing as dirty flagging. If run out of time you mis allocated and is all your problem, opponents problem how to win given rules of game which includes flagging even when there is not enough material to make mate other than assisted. 0' And keeping record is only for classical chess i.e thinking time must be as least 60 minutes/game (assuming 60 moves as game length). If there is no increment of at least 30 seconds - which is rare - then duty to keep record is waived when player has 5 minutes or less in his/her clock.
With 30 seconds per move it very hard to flag anyone if game dead draw.
With 30 seconds per move it very hard to flag anyone if game dead draw.
This is the FIDE rule regarding keeping score with a low amount of time:
8.4
If a player has less than five minutes left on his clock at some stage in a period and does not have additional time of 30 seconds or more added with each move, then for the remainder of the period he is not obliged to meet the requirements of Article 8.1.1. (Recording of moves)
The following covers the "dirty flagging" you mention, if a player cannot win by normal means:
Guidelines III. Games without increment including Quickplay Finishes
III.1 A ‘quickplay finish’ is the phase of a game when all the remaining moves must be completed in a finite time.
III.2.1 The Guidelines below concerning the final period of the game including Quickplay Finishes, shall only be used at an event if their use has been announced beforehand.
III.2.2 These Guidelines shall apply only to standard chess and rapid chess games without increment and not to blitz games.
III.3.1 If both flags have fallen and it is impossible to establish which flag fell first then:
III.3.1.1 the game shall continue if this occurs in any period of the game except the last period.
III.3.1.2 the game is drawn if this occurs in the period of a game in which all remaining moves must be completed.
III.4 If the player having the move has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may request that an increment extra five seconds be introduced for both players. This constitutes the offer of a draw. If the offer refused, and the arbiter agrees to the request, the clocks shall then be set with the extra time; the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue.
III.5 If Article III.4 does not apply and the player having the move has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a draw before his flag falls. He shall summon the arbiter and may stop the chessclock (see Article 6.12.2). He may claim on the basis that his opponent cannot win by normal means, and/or that his opponent has been making no effort to win by normal means:
III.5.1 If the arbiter agrees that the opponent cannot win by normal means, or that the opponent has been making no effort to win the game by normal means, he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.
III.5.2 If the arbiter postpones his decision, the opponent may be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue, if possible, in the presence of an arbiter. The arbiter shall declare the final result later in the game or as soon as possible after the flag of either player has fallen. He shall declare the game drawn if he agrees that the opponent of the player whose flag has fallen cannot win by normal means, or that he was not making sufficient attempts to win by normal means.
III.5.3 If the arbiter has rejected the claim, the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes.
III.6 The following shall apply when the competition is not supervised by an arbiter:
III.6.1 A player may claim a draw when he has less than two minutes left on his clock and before his flag falls. This concludes the game. He may claim on the basis:
III.6.1.1 that his opponent cannot win by normal means, and/or
III.6.1.2 that his opponent has been making no effort to win by normal means.
In III.6.1.1 the player must write down the final position and his opponent must verify it.
In III.6.1.2 the player must write down the final position and submit an up-to-date scoresheet. The opponent shall verify both the scoresheet and the final position.
III.6.2
The claim shall be referred to the designated arbiter.
8.4
If a player has less than five minutes left on his clock at some stage in a period and does not have additional time of 30 seconds or more added with each move, then for the remainder of the period he is not obliged to meet the requirements of Article 8.1.1. (Recording of moves)
The following covers the "dirty flagging" you mention, if a player cannot win by normal means:
Guidelines III. Games without increment including Quickplay Finishes
III.1 A ‘quickplay finish’ is the phase of a game when all the remaining moves must be completed in a finite time.
III.2.1 The Guidelines below concerning the final period of the game including Quickplay Finishes, shall only be used at an event if their use has been announced beforehand.
III.2.2 These Guidelines shall apply only to standard chess and rapid chess games without increment and not to blitz games.
III.3.1 If both flags have fallen and it is impossible to establish which flag fell first then:
III.3.1.1 the game shall continue if this occurs in any period of the game except the last period.
III.3.1.2 the game is drawn if this occurs in the period of a game in which all remaining moves must be completed.
III.4 If the player having the move has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may request that an increment extra five seconds be introduced for both players. This constitutes the offer of a draw. If the offer refused, and the arbiter agrees to the request, the clocks shall then be set with the extra time; the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue.
III.5 If Article III.4 does not apply and the player having the move has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a draw before his flag falls. He shall summon the arbiter and may stop the chessclock (see Article 6.12.2). He may claim on the basis that his opponent cannot win by normal means, and/or that his opponent has been making no effort to win by normal means:
III.5.1 If the arbiter agrees that the opponent cannot win by normal means, or that the opponent has been making no effort to win the game by normal means, he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.
III.5.2 If the arbiter postpones his decision, the opponent may be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue, if possible, in the presence of an arbiter. The arbiter shall declare the final result later in the game or as soon as possible after the flag of either player has fallen. He shall declare the game drawn if he agrees that the opponent of the player whose flag has fallen cannot win by normal means, or that he was not making sufficient attempts to win by normal means.
III.5.3 If the arbiter has rejected the claim, the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes.
III.6 The following shall apply when the competition is not supervised by an arbiter:
III.6.1 A player may claim a draw when he has less than two minutes left on his clock and before his flag falls. This concludes the game. He may claim on the basis:
III.6.1.1 that his opponent cannot win by normal means, and/or
III.6.1.2 that his opponent has been making no effort to win by normal means.
In III.6.1.1 the player must write down the final position and his opponent must verify it.
In III.6.1.2 the player must write down the final position and submit an up-to-date scoresheet. The opponent shall verify both the scoresheet and the final position.
III.6.2
The claim shall be referred to the designated arbiter.
None of the rules regarding "trying to win with normal means" etc. do not apply in rapid on blitz. and being flagged in classic is rare
And even classic you have stop the clock call the arbitrer make your claim.
And even classic you have stop the clock call the arbitrer make your claim.
Nowadays the right to claim is rare.
-not few organizers rule it out beforehand
-with increment there is no right at all
-the arbiter can decide to play on anyway: "wanna see!"
-III.2.2 These Guidelines shall apply only to standard chess and rapid chess games without increment and not to blitz games.
So better forget about this "claiming business" and move (your ass) quickly)!
-not few organizers rule it out beforehand
-with increment there is no right at all
-the arbiter can decide to play on anyway: "wanna see!"
-III.2.2 These Guidelines shall apply only to standard chess and rapid chess games without increment and not to blitz games.
So better forget about this "claiming business" and move (your ass) quickly)!
I have managed to claim a draw in an over the board tournament successfully. I had a few seconds left on the clock (no increment) in a rook endgame where I was up a pawn. I stopped the clock, called an arbiter and explained why did I call him. He called it a draw and the game was drawn this way. You can't claim a draw when there's increment.
@Sarg0n well no, if they try to flag you, you should claim:
III.4 If the player having the move has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may request that an increment extra five seconds be introduced for both players. This constitutes the offer of a draw. If the offer refused, and the arbiter agrees to the request, the clocks shall then be set with the extra time; the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue.
This will be granted under pretty much any circumstances. The opponent if in a better position can still try to win by normal means but they won't be flagging you.
The whole point of this rule is to remove the referee having to decide whether to call a game drawn or not right away, this way it can just be played out.
Obviously this doesn't make sense in blitz where time is one of the main components of the game, or if there's increment already.
III.4 If the player having the move has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may request that an increment extra five seconds be introduced for both players. This constitutes the offer of a draw. If the offer refused, and the arbiter agrees to the request, the clocks shall then be set with the extra time; the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue.
This will be granted under pretty much any circumstances. The opponent if in a better position can still try to win by normal means but they won't be flagging you.
The whole point of this rule is to remove the referee having to decide whether to call a game drawn or not right away, this way it can just be played out.
Obviously this doesn't make sense in blitz where time is one of the main components of the game, or if there's increment already.
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