I have heard lots of ridiculous claims on both sides of the argument about socialism. Can somebody please explain what a day would look like in a socialist state, and how the system is supposed to operate? Please no slander, I just want to talk about it. I can't find any articles online that aren't extremely biased, so could someone point me to one?
Thanks.
I have heard lots of ridiculous claims on both sides of the argument about socialism. Can somebody please explain what a day would look like in a socialist state, and how the system is supposed to operate? Please no slander, I just want to talk about it. I can't find any articles online that aren't extremely biased, so could someone point me to one?
Thanks.
It depends on what socialism you're talking about.
Marx's vision of socialism is not the same vision of socialism as that of the European Socialist Party today. The definition of socialism in communist states is not the same as in liberal-capitalist countries.
So, if you want to know what a hypothetical day in a socialist world would be like, we first need to agree on the orientation and identity of the socialism you want to explore for this "experience"
It depends on what socialism you're talking about.
Marx's vision of socialism is not the same vision of socialism as that of the European Socialist Party today. The definition of socialism in communist states is not the same as in liberal-capitalist countries.
So, if you want to know what a hypothetical day in a socialist world would be like, we first need to agree on the orientation and identity of the socialism you want to explore for this "experience"
Okay, tell me about the more modern socialism.
Okay, tell me about the more modern socialism.
@TheCaptain7777 said in #1:
I have heard lots of ridiculous claims on both sides of the argument about socialism. Can somebody please explain what a day would look like in a socialist state, and how the system is supposed to operate? Please no slander, I just want to talk about it. I can't find any articles online that aren't extremely biased, so could someone point me to one?
Thanks.
I am going out now, but I'll get back to you later on this. Just to start off, I think you have to distinguish between two main approaches to socialism, as well as one type of society that has been widely presented as socialism, when it is no such thing.
The first type is what is sometimes called "Classical Marxism", which was first expressed by Marx in the Communist Manifesto of 1848. This was both a theory of history and a prescription for working class self-emancipation. It envisaged social revolution as the percursor to the creation of a socialist society in which the working class would play the leading role.
The second type is social democracy, or reformist socialism, which saw socialism coming about incrementally by reforms passed within the instiyutions of capitalism. Gradually capitalism could be changed into socialism without any need for social revolution. The main theorist for this was Eduard Bernstein, who was another German, and he made his arguments in the years before World War One.
The third type is Stalinism (and its close cousins such as Maoism, Castroism, North Korea, vietnam etc). This trend used the language of Marxism but there was no element of working class self-emancipation present at all. This is an authoritarian, often dystopian current that emerged from the right wing of the Russian Communist Party under Stalin in the mid 1920s. Maoism was slightly different in that the Chinese Communist Party had lost its working class base by 1927 and became a largely peasant organisation. None of the societies based on this sort of politics was socialist in the Classical Marxist sense. The best explanation for them is state capitalism, a theory that originated in the UK in the 1950s.
@TheCaptain7777 said in #1:
> I have heard lots of ridiculous claims on both sides of the argument about socialism. Can somebody please explain what a day would look like in a socialist state, and how the system is supposed to operate? Please no slander, I just want to talk about it. I can't find any articles online that aren't extremely biased, so could someone point me to one?
>
> Thanks.
I am going out now, but I'll get back to you later on this. Just to start off, I think you have to distinguish between two main approaches to socialism, as well as one type of society that has been widely presented as socialism, when it is no such thing.
The first type is what is sometimes called "Classical Marxism", which was first expressed by Marx in the Communist Manifesto of 1848. This was both a theory of history and a prescription for working class self-emancipation. It envisaged social revolution as the percursor to the creation of a socialist society in which the working class would play the leading role.
The second type is social democracy, or reformist socialism, which saw socialism coming about incrementally by reforms passed within the instiyutions of capitalism. Gradually capitalism could be changed into socialism without any need for social revolution. The main theorist for this was Eduard Bernstein, who was another German, and he made his arguments in the years before World War One.
The third type is Stalinism (and its close cousins such as Maoism, Castroism, North Korea, vietnam etc). This trend used the language of Marxism but there was no element of working class self-emancipation present at all. This is an authoritarian, often dystopian current that emerged from the right wing of the Russian Communist Party under Stalin in the mid 1920s. Maoism was slightly different in that the Chinese Communist Party had lost its working class base by 1927 and became a largely peasant organisation. None of the societies based on this sort of politics was socialist in the Classical Marxist sense. The best explanation for them is state capitalism, a theory that originated in the UK in the 1950s.
i am a socialist , i see a socialist society following a certain way
from each according to ability
to each according to need
how would a day go in this ,
i am able bodied , i would work for society in whatever role im best at for this effort i would have my needs met , be that food shelter .
i put in my fair share i receive my fair share , its quite a mutual society , it makes alot of sense , to me
i live however in a society where often those with no need have most of what society produces yet do nothing for it mainlyt due to inherited wealth
and the greed of the idle rich few doesnt diminsh it grows , whilst those in need get less and less no matter how hard they work
its not a pleasent society capitalism ,
thats why im a socialist , i care about society
edit ,,, i hope you see that socialism is an ideal society , some call it a utopia , but as long as we have lived in a society of idle rich and hard working poor , its been a wish , long before marx long before engels long before trotsky long before lenin ,
humans want to be treat equally and fairly
i am a socialist , i see a socialist society following a certain way
from each according to ability
to each according to need
how would a day go in this ,
i am able bodied , i would work for society in whatever role im best at for this effort i would have my needs met , be that food shelter .
i put in my fair share i receive my fair share , its quite a mutual society , it makes alot of sense , to me
i live however in a society where often those with no need have most of what society produces yet do nothing for it mainlyt due to inherited wealth
and the greed of the idle rich few doesnt diminsh it grows , whilst those in need get less and less no matter how hard they work
its not a pleasent society capitalism ,
thats why im a socialist , i care about society
edit ,,, i hope you see that socialism is an ideal society , some call it a utopia , but as long as we have lived in a society of idle rich and hard working poor , its been a wish , long before marx long before engels long before trotsky long before lenin ,
humans want to be treat equally and fairly
To each according to his/her need? And who is going to tell you what you need? The socialist government?
So much for trying to get ahead.
To each according to his/her need? And who is going to tell you what you need? The socialist government?
So much for trying to get ahead.
do you need a luxury yachy , no but billionaires tax dodgers do
or would you need a home, ? its ok a rich tax dodging billionaire will charge you an arm or a leg and laugh as you
"try to get ahead "
wise up mate but cheers for the reply
do you need a luxury yachy , no but billionaires tax dodgers do
or would you need a home, ? its ok a rich tax dodging billionaire will charge you an arm or a leg and laugh as you
"try to get ahead "
wise up mate but cheers for the reply
who are you trying to get agead of btw ?
if its hussain bolt good luck lol
but you can be happy with the bare necessities you know , you dont need to look better off than your neighbours , you could be neighbourly and be happy to share
and who knows you might find yourself living in a sharing caring society where you look out for each other rather than the self indulgent uncaring unsharing better than you creedo that governs our morality today
just a thought
who are you trying to get agead of btw ?
if its hussain bolt good luck lol
but you can be happy with the bare necessities you know , you dont need to look better off than your neighbours , you could be neighbourly and be happy to share
and who knows you might find yourself living in a sharing caring society where you look out for each other rather than the self indulgent uncaring unsharing better than you creedo that governs our morality today
just a thought
@TheCaptain7777 said in #3:
Okay, tell me about the more modern socialism.
If you're about socialism as it is present in the political landscape of capitalist countries as a party, it's is very far from the theory of Marxist socialism or socialism according to anarchists.
The abolition of classes and the end of capitalism are not priorities for these parties. Today, socialism as a party is in a way a socialism within capitalism, a sorta of socialism that will supports a fairer economic redistribution, that will try to reduce unemployment, a more open borders politic, but it will not fight against great fortunes, will not guarantee that in fact there is more equality nor that they will listen the working class.
@TheCaptain7777 said in #3:
> Okay, tell me about the more modern socialism.
If you're about socialism as it is present in the political landscape of capitalist countries as a party, it's is very far from the theory of Marxist socialism or socialism according to anarchists.
The abolition of classes and the end of capitalism are not priorities for these parties. Today, socialism as a party is in a way a socialism within capitalism, a sorta of socialism that will supports a fairer economic redistribution, that will try to reduce unemployment, a more open borders politic, but it will not fight against great fortunes, will not guarantee that in fact there is more equality nor that they will listen the working class.
@sabotuma said in #5:
i am a socialist , i see a socialist society following a certain way
from each according to ability
to each according to need
how would a day go in this ,
i am able bodied , i would work for society in whatever role im best at for this effort i would have my needs met , be that food shelter .
i put in my fair share i receive my fair share , its quite a mutual society , it makes alot of sense , to me
i live however in a society where often those with no need have most of what society produces yet do nothing for it mainlyt due to inherited wealth
and the greed of the idle rich few doesnt diminsh it grows , whilst those in need get less and less no matter how hard they work
its not a pleasent society capitalism ,
thats why im a socialist , i care about society
edit ,,, i hope you see that socialism is an ideal society , some call it a utopia , but as long as we have lived in a society of idle rich and hard working poor , its been a wish , long before marx long before engels long before trotsky long before lenin ,
humans want to be treat equally and fairly
But why would you work? Maybe some people would, but most people would be lazy, and they would still receive the benefits of society. I don't think what you described is the whole picture of socialism.
Also, my experience with humans is not that they want to be treated fairly. They are willing to enjoy themselves at the expense of others, and they are not willing to have others enjoy themselves at their expense. So, how does socialism actually work? I'm sure somebody knows a system that actually works.
@sabotuma said in #5:
> i am a socialist , i see a socialist society following a certain way
> from each according to ability
> to each according to need
> how would a day go in this ,
> i am able bodied , i would work for society in whatever role im best at for this effort i would have my needs met , be that food shelter .
> i put in my fair share i receive my fair share , its quite a mutual society , it makes alot of sense , to me
> i live however in a society where often those with no need have most of what society produces yet do nothing for it mainlyt due to inherited wealth
> and the greed of the idle rich few doesnt diminsh it grows , whilst those in need get less and less no matter how hard they work
> its not a pleasent society capitalism ,
> thats why im a socialist , i care about society
>
> edit ,,, i hope you see that socialism is an ideal society , some call it a utopia , but as long as we have lived in a society of idle rich and hard working poor , its been a wish , long before marx long before engels long before trotsky long before lenin ,
> humans want to be treat equally and fairly
But why would you work? Maybe some people would, but most people would be lazy, and they would still receive the benefits of society. I don't think what you described is the whole picture of socialism.
Also, my experience with humans is not that they want to be treated fairly. They are willing to enjoy themselves at the expense of others, and they are not willing to have others enjoy themselves at their expense. So, how does socialism actually work? I'm sure somebody knows a system that actually works.