@Mopman said in #38:
> That is was not the original plan but the circumstances that led to it is difficult to defend since we are talking about civilians.
> It is possible that it was a few ( quite a few based on the deaths ) members disobeyed and attacked civilians but since they were under the command of Hamas then they must accept that responsibility or at the very least charge and arrest those members and then publish that information.
We can clear up the original plan wasn't to kill civilians because they don't benefit from it
Take example the dancing party or festival
If they targeted it they would take the short path not the long one
But ignoring that point, there are still many armed groups as I said
Not only hamas
The kills might have been done by these which is very likely
Or as I said the civilians were in the middle of a confrontation
> ( ignoring helicopter since you agree that is not likely )
> There certainly could have been friendly fire but the numbers of dead do not really add up to that since if you are shooting at enemy combatants you do not fire into crowds of fleeing civilians.
Comes the other armed groups part
There is nothing clear on what happened
And certainly we will know more
If it was members who disobeyed we will see Hamas show them and punish them
Other armed groups we will see
But we can't blame it all on Hamas because as I said it is claim vs claim
> Disproportionate response. Can you say with absolute certainty that given the firepower and ability Hamas would not do the same thing to Israel that is happening to Gaza?
We are talking 20k person for 1k person that is only after Oct 7th
That is ignoring the events that happened before
That is ignoring the deaths of civilians the idf made before the 7th Oct
That is ignoring the hostages the idf has of Palestinians kids and women ...
We are only talking about after the 7th Oct and it is 1k vs 20k and it is still continuing
And yet again the idf failed miserably against Hamad
Their attacks only affect civilians
The only way to get back hostages is negotiations