antarctica

that's cool; i'm too high to respond to this right now; will sleep and do so upon waking

too high .... XD
oh that's good

love isn't just allowing ourselves "to be changed from relations that we control"; it's also allowing ourselves to be changed from relations that control us; love is a mutual connection (and being
open to being connected to allows the possibility that somebody will change us thereby).

an example; when we eat food, it changes who we are; the chemicals affect our mental processes, and the nutritional profile affects how our body builds itself. when we eat good things we allow
ourselves to be changed for the good. this is even more true for connections to things with an active will (like other people).

in a sense it's not really hatred or love itself that is key, but their relationship to their object. if we love good things, we benefit. when we love (or connect with) bad things, we suffer. when
we fault what is good, we suffer; but when we fault what is wrong, then we benefit. granted, faulting isn't necessarily hatred, but it is negativity, and there is a positive role for negativity too.
order/discipline requires it.

I wouldn't say young love is untrue; in fact, in some ways it's more true. but as we age we are meant to be refined, i think, and the realisation of our refinement is more clear (and less uncertain),
at any rate.

Well, sometimes the show ends rather abruptly. The Hiroshima show was cancelled all of a sudden (granted, it was already under duress, due to the rest of the war). and this was 70 years ago (when
our technology was less advanced and our world was less connected).

And as for "the truth and innocence of nature has been lost" in "conscious purpose", I don't think it's an outright condemnation of the latter; we must adapt with the circumstances, and it's like with
the refinement of love perhaps; while indeed some of our truth and innocence has been lost, we do so while maintaining, clarifying even, the essential center (essential truth and innocence).

I don't think good and evil ever reach an equality. during the big crunch they aren't squished together so much as evil is the outside darkness pushing in on the light. sometimes evil has the
momentum, but the good is never in any danger; in that sense, they're not even comparable. evil may overwhelm the multitude, but the essential center remains even if it is only a spark. on the other
hand one may also say the darkness is always there too; that may be your "equality of sorts". however, life is preeminent. if good is creative and evil is destructive, then the fact of our eternal
existence is evidence of an essential affirmation.

Here's my favorite Dylan song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YanjY9CsPDQ

Not to mention, there are people who eat other people, but I guess those aren't the sort of changes steering towards the better. Then again they say you are what you eat. :/

Yeah I know order [in order to be] working for love has to work against hate and request negativity, at least a good deal of the time. I'm sure there are ways to attack problems without despising
them. But heck, anything beats being in love with bad people...indeed has its sufferings.

I guess the impression I get, is that young love is more 'saturated'. It's more powerfully sided to be true or deceptive and ill than a relationship between people who already have a sustenance in
their lives and know where to move on. I know I've read stories of people miserably or perhaps fatally depressed at abrupt terminations to love at really young ages, but I guess it's different with a
more matured grasp of the world's inner-workings.
...although, who am I to have such a thing =D

The 'Hiroshima show', what is that? Tried looking it up in quotes XD all I know is it was one of the cities that got bombed by nuclear arsenal.

I was being blunt near the end though what I meant was that I recognized the "truth of innocence" quote as where you had specified it earlier on in the thread, then saw the complete text block that
supersetted the quote. But yeah, it's not like we can live life as a completely wonderful game full of innocence and truth. Anybody who has a job, works for the dough, any shit like that knows what
it means to have "conscious purpose"; they have objectives, goals, ambitions, set their expectations, learn about their families....

How is it that the good is never in any danger from the evil? I can see a couple perceptible explanations so I am sure no matter what disasters happen to the innocent there are ways this is true; I
just can't confidently word one out. The mix of good and evil endures suffering regardless and no person is completely pure, but I guess I'm mostly just curious what your explanation is.
But yes, the ins and outs, inhales and exhales, beat along with the rhythm of destruction and recreation, so I'd have to take it as true that our spirits are too eternal for the forces to peak at an
equality.

That is a thought-provoking song. More insightful than 80% of the shit I listen to XD. I can't stand most country stuff though, but ultimately there's a point where I'll listen to almost anything on
loop, because anything will get old and change our sense of what 'old' music feels like (but certainly not drastically).

I would say loving bad people is equivalent to hating good people, but it's hard to tell which is worse, if either is, and this and that.

As for young love; everything accords in its own time, in its right place. We may look backwards and see naivete, but at the time it was appropriate. Love isn't supposed to kill, but sometimes it
does (in the purest hearts, perhaps).

Well, sure, we must have objectives and goals and plans and work within the system, but for what? Not for compromise itself; that is a peddler's bargain. In order to preserve the truth, the
innocence, the good; then it's worth it.

Some good is in danger from the evil; some good is weak. The purest, strongest good (the essence of good) is in no danger, even if the weaker good succumbs. Even if evil were to succeed materially
at times, the spirit of the good remains and remains preeminent.

No person may be completely pure, but our faith in life and love is, even if it is tempered at times by the ego and reactionary negativity, and eventually decline and old age. The point is still life
and love; it's what we look forward to in youth, and backwards to once we're over the hill.

I don't really listen to country either, but there are some good ones out there too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdRdqp4N3Jw

It's possible to love people both good and bad, but down to the measure of merit yeah they seem equal pretty much to me--in the sense at least that a person will always be some sort of mixture of
both. What I was getting at I think is that love is a more painful experience when tied to bad or malicious people whose true nature we do not know the reality of, while hating a good person isn't
really your own suffering (at least not directly I guess).

Right, it's like, we can never have ourselves to blame for being in love with someone, no matter when it was or when it will be. It's just who we were at the time (or are) and never something we can
control. It isn't a darkness made to conquer us, just a guiding essence to control us so far as that. Without any sort of respect, admiration, care or appreciation for anything in the nature around
us we'd just be hostile beasts.

lol, well when you ask that I don't really know "for what"; when I make progress I don't know anything about the realistic future. I just know that anything's better than, like, sitting by and fading
away motionlessly or w/e, so, natural alternative, make progress and do some shit. So I guess I don't see conscious purpose XD

Yeah all of that is true; the blind man has just what he is left to follow. So he follows it without knowing, but basically as you put, there is always the stronger good that knows more than the
blind man, so as long as justice is known, it does not matter pre-determinately how evil has prevailed. Dunno why I didn't just capture all that from the start though lol; for some reason I had to
ask you anyway. Maybe it's just something my awareness only contains every third hour or something like that XD my memory gets funny like that

I kind of took that for granted :D given that an individual entity can qualify as 'pure' only if it purely is pure. When something comprises of a mixture where the measure differs then it is pure in
different ways but not all of them. Put bluntly once again :D I do have some terrible hostile instincts though, kinda get pissed off easily at some stuff lmao

That tune ain't all that bad. I could actually listen to that for an hour while doing my research and shit XD. First thing that came to my mind when I saw the title was this song I then instantly
remembered that I once heard long ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2uQ8GMHlTI
but dang...once I look it up it seems there are very many songs whose titles contain "fly away"

Love is a complex and often seemingly paradoxical thing. Opposites attract, like magnets. Desire is rooted in need and we take for granted what we have. The extent to which we suffer is more or
less the extent to which we feel anything at all. "Success is counted sweetest by those who never succeed." We can try to make cognitive sense of it but we're only going to get tangled. The thing
works reflexively and it is circular and bipolar (just like Earth). It keeps itself moving that way. "Man is an animal that walks on two legs and is ungrateful" -Dostoevsky.

This is why faith is important. Our thoughts get confused and our intentions change from day to day.

Life is a learning experience; even our failures serve as memories of the universe; a path already taken. Thus the paradox of winning and losing; at the top of the mountain the way forward is a long
way down, and vice versa (once you've hit bottom everything is looking up).

I would say the "for what" is equivalent to the reason why a flower blooms; the reason why a bee collects nectar and makes honey (in cooperation with said flower); realisation of oneself, as
God/nature/the universe intended. This involves for human males (I can only speak for what I know) learning things [revelation], creation, completion, conquest, cooperation, love, etc. (and those
mentioned often overlap).

Yah, sometimes evil is strong, stronger than some good. Innocent people are often victims of the machinations/selfishness/cruelty/whatever of corrupt and wicked men and women. This is one of those
things that seems fundamentally unfair; we may rationalise it that nature selects for viability and somehow this maintains it, which is true, but even that explanation seems inadequate. Remember tho
that nobody chooses to be evil; evil is a distortion, a fall from grace (as in Satan's case); what's strongest maintains the strength to remain undistorted and thus good, and this is the preeminent
center, the "soul of nature", even if the personae representing it change.

I remember that lenny kravitz song; i like it too.

In that sense yeah, anything bipolar seems paradoxical. I read about this one paradox of a leader of men exclaiming, basically, "We're all liars," except more specifically he said a specific kind of
people is a lying people--the kind of people of which he belonged as a member of. Funny thing is--and call me crazy--but I don't find that paradoxical, only bipolar. I think so many people are just
obsessed over hypocrites or selfish hypocritical behavior to such a natural degree that they take that saying for granted too easily--how can someone never tell the truth about something just because
the person is a liar, to whatever partial extent? "Paradox," to me, is more like an illusion of what is really the bipolar functionality that you've explained. So when I paraphrase it as, "We're all
liars," maybe not as many people get the instinctual inference of a hypocrite specifying a paradox as they do saying, "White people are liars," or whatever lol, and the person's white. Because Hell,
it's not like [some] white people don't lie; it's not logically paradoxical in the least, just bipolar. :D

Although I guess I didn't completely interpret what you meant at the end. The saying about what a man is and the daily cycle of our intentions seemed to go onto something else. Not like I can make
up my mind what goal I wanna focus on right now when I'm working anyway XD

"Things are looking up!" :D
That whole cycle is kinda like my rating on this site lol. The further up it goes, the more it plummets next time; the further down it goes, the more unexpectedly I find that it heightens. But as I
remember you had that tendency as well, even if not just because of life being a "learning experience" but other catalysts like drinking or whatever lol.

In that context, basically those things happen because we don't favor conscious purpose behind doing those things. A light may or may not bear heavy knowledge of the purpose behind its bright glow,
but it doesn't bear any impact on the reasoning behind actually doing so if it is a natural function, unless it's emo depressed or something (lolwut?). That goes true for either good lights or evil
lights I think.

Speaking of good lights and evil lights, the later seems to go more into that obsession over power and control, so that could also explain why innocent people tend to be victims of corrupt and wicked
people as you said. Because while the good isn't necessarily focused on anything and has a natural force to follow, the evil wishes to create their own force to follow them to add to their control
because they don't understand how to follow any preexisting forces so long as they're bent on surmounting them. It's not really a full explanation either I guess, but I guess it explains the
difference between the kinds of inspiration they give.

That song might have been one of the very first to initialize this strange habit of rocking the head back and forth onto a platform (slowly, not as in death metal lmao!, I fucking hate that shit) that
my brother picked up. Fucking YouTube though, I hate how I only heard sfx audio out the left speaker of my headphones and not the right. I hate monaural audio XD and some of the previous headphones
I bought that fucked the jacks up so that only the left or right would have audio.

I don't think it's fair to say we're all liars, because we're not. There's a difference in being deliberately deceptive and merely inconsistent (bipolar).

Hmm, true most of us are unaware of ourselves as objects of fate. On the other hand in one sense, the less conscious we are as objects, the more object we are (ie. we can't subjectify ourselves; and
thereby transcend). Emerson and the Tao both said something to that end:

"Their success lay in their parallelism to the course of thought, which found in them an unobstructed channel; and the wonders of which they were the visible conductors seemed to the eye their deed.
Did the wires generate the galvanism? It is even true that there was less in them on which they could reflect, than in another; as the virtue of a pipe is to be smooth and hollow. That which
externally seemed will and immovableness was willingness and self-annihilation." -Spiritual Laws http://emersoncentral.com/spirituallaws.htm

Whereas when our ego is constantly involved it keeps abnegating any universal striving for greater purpose.

I agree that evil is obsessed with power, control, acquisition, etc., but it's for its own sake (ie. selfishness of the ego). On the other hand, good lights also recognise the value of power,
control, money, etc., only not as ends in themselves, but rather as means to accomplishing or preserving a greater good. A good doctor, a good father, a good cleric, etc., recognises his position of
authority is necessary to fulfill the needs of those he serves.

In a way evil is just ending up on the wrong side of the equation; most evil and most good is not fully conscious of itself as such (tho most people consider themselves generally good, of course, and
maybe they're right); very few people self-consciously identify as evil; those who do, do so because of the recognition of some failure or critical loss in the face of the go/o/d; since they still
perceive the go/o/d to exist as such, they conclude the opposition must mean that they are bad. Because this arrangement admits that the other (the good) has the power to define their own alignment,
the outcome of the greater conflict (good vs evil) is a foregone conclusion. Furthermore, evil ultimately demands itself be defeated, as it recognises the go/o/d, and therefore, in losing, so honors
it. From God's perspective, perhaps, if it were possible, he only sees his own self the entire time; weakness challenging strength to be stronger - to clarify the light.

When I listen to music I require it be played out loud. Music isn't just to hear; it's also to feel. For example, the bass on this song feels incredible (off and on, starting at :54 - tho you may
have to adjust your proximity to the sub for the right resonance):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-wvLjD8a0

No, no; I was just comparing and contrasting two different ways that it was explained. The original saying was not, "We're all liars," and as I've already explained "we're" was in reference to his
own 'type' of people (in some location, again I just can't remember the saying all that well).
One method of saying caused people to think he was being a hateful hypocrite; the other was a social rewrite of what he was saying that made more sense and didn't sound as paradoxical, yet basically
conveyed the exact same thing. I'm not arguing whether or not what the dude said was true or false (as I don't even remember who he was referring to as liars anyway), just proving that it's not
necessarily a paradox and that it can make sense.

Basically evil ambition has that self-annihilation hinted at the end of that excerpt. Jesus I am so slow at interpreting those kinds of pages though lmao; it would take me days just to read through
that one link. But yeah, I guess more specifically it's that immovableness, because good can do that, too, while knowing it out of sacrifice for the better good. A really flexible darkness might not
be directly annihilating the self so much as a determined, self-sustaining one was, as there are different types of commitments, although the end result suggests the same.

I guess that's true because it's not really feasible to live life without any understanding of power, at least even the basic functions of survival. So it stands to reason that it really doesn't
correlate with what kind of light, evil or good, just how it is used and why it is sought.

As far as I know, from any time I've felt knowingly aligned with evil, I had to have known it was wrong. Of course there are also really religious people that mean to cause harm to vast amounts of
people, and they genuinely have no sense that they might be evil because they think in totally different ways than we're acquainted to and that they are genuinely doing a service to the world. I'm
really not sure how the psychology about that sort of thing works and not sure I wanna think about it; I'm not anybody to have evidence they're right or wrong about harming others; I just don't see
the point in thinking about it because there's no way of (personally, me?) knowing something like that could be really the right thing to do, based on those reasons of differences anyway. Didn't
really want to delve into that and not sure how I really did honestly lol, as truthfully I'm much more oriented to the perspective where you explained it about challenging the self to be stronger and
learning from our past images.

I have leftover some really crappy-ass, generic speakers, that I presume wouldn't play the bass in that song so well (without having to try and blast it across the rooms here...generally always use my
headphones cause I don't like to feel judged by what I'm listening to like my mom does, who blasts the shit across the entire complex every day XD with high-quality output). These cheap headphones
have gone through some damage over the years as well, but when I smush 'em together towards my ears I can hear some of that unusual bass in that song.