What are arena weaknesses in tournaments with less than 20 participants?
I assume he means the pairing system which suffers a bit with few players, but I've run club tournaments with around 10 people and it's been fine really
@thibault the weakness with tournament than less than 20 pp is than often you are paired with the same person it already happen than i have been paired with the same person 4-5 times in the row !... (7th place) lichess.org/tournament/X5oMlENx
Yeah that's the issue with small arenas. It pairs the same people 4-5 times
i understand the issue of people leaving the tournament before the end but why not add a feature before the pairing to make sure than the player in the tournament are still active ? as such only active player would be paired against each others.
Arena is not suitable for < 20 participants: playing the same opponent several times, playing one colour more than the other. The streak system and the berserk system also distort what is seen as fair outcome.
If you have a small group < 20 of people that can agree on a particular time schedule and that commit to not joining late, not quitting early and not pausing, then round robin for smaller groups or swiss for larger groups is indeed superior.
Nothing impedes that: if you have a group of some people that commit to a time schedule, then you can set up round robin or swiss just the same as you would do over the board and have them play on lichess. You do not have to worry about chess sets, clocks, score sheets, irregular move claims, draw claims... It is way easier than over the board.
However, why continue to play the same people as over the board? Why inbreeding? Why stick to a rigid time schedule?
You can play here people all over the world at any time 24/7 you desire. You can join as you like, you can pause or quit as you see fit. Why not seize the opportunity to play different people in a different way?
If you have a small group < 20 of people that can agree on a particular time schedule and that commit to not joining late, not quitting early and not pausing, then round robin for smaller groups or swiss for larger groups is indeed superior.
Nothing impedes that: if you have a group of some people that commit to a time schedule, then you can set up round robin or swiss just the same as you would do over the board and have them play on lichess. You do not have to worry about chess sets, clocks, score sheets, irregular move claims, draw claims... It is way easier than over the board.
However, why continue to play the same people as over the board? Why inbreeding? Why stick to a rigid time schedule?
You can play here people all over the world at any time 24/7 you desire. You can join as you like, you can pause or quit as you see fit. Why not seize the opportunity to play different people in a different way?
As in real tournaments, you could pair with people who have left anyway. They won't make a move and lose. This makes them lose rating points, which is a deterrent for people leaving before the tournament finishes.
@tpr that would be the case if everybody on lichess could play OTB tournament however its not the case many online player never played OTB, and robin/swiss tournament would really be a plus on slower time control. i enjoy the actual system but swiss tournament got this little...plus.
We should make a distinction between swiss and round robin.
Round robin requires P-1 round for P players, e.g. 9 rounds for 10 players. It is suitable for a small number of players.
Swiss requires R rounds for 2^R players or less, e.g. 5 rounds for 32 players. It is suitable for a large number of players.
Round robin. If a player leaves before the end, then that distorts the result. Should his played games count or be striken?
In Swiss you can do pairings only after all scheduled games of a round are completed.
Round robin and swiss require discipline and commitment, which is hard to enforce online.
Round robin requires P-1 round for P players, e.g. 9 rounds for 10 players. It is suitable for a small number of players.
Swiss requires R rounds for 2^R players or less, e.g. 5 rounds for 32 players. It is suitable for a large number of players.
Round robin. If a player leaves before the end, then that distorts the result. Should his played games count or be striken?
In Swiss you can do pairings only after all scheduled games of a round are completed.
Round robin and swiss require discipline and commitment, which is hard to enforce online.
As you said those tournament requirer discipline and commitment if the played leave before the end his games shoudnt count into the tournaments as so everybody would be happy casual player played they games, players into the competition get access to the top tournament more easily.
I dont see what the Problem , this is why theses tournaments are more interessting instead or bullett everybody berserk to play the most games. Here every games would matter.
I dont see what the Problem , this is why theses tournaments are more interessting instead or bullett everybody berserk to play the most games. Here every games would matter.
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