Cheating - how Lichess works and what users should think about it

@odoaker2015 said in #8:
> Du solltest niemanden blindlinks vertrauen. Auch Lichess nicht. Wenn ich dir jetzt sage, dass ich einen Kobold namens Pumuckl zu Hause habe, glaubst du mir?
>
> Lichess behauptet nur dass Stefan betrogen hat. Kann man dem blindlinks vertrauen? Ich glaube nicht. Die Beweislast liegt bei Lichess. Und Lichess legt keine Beweise vor.

Ess nicht das gleiche, wieso sollte lichess lügen.

Niemand behauptet das Lichess lügt.
Die sind einfach zu wenige Leute und es gibt zuviele Fälle, der Vorwurf lautet lediglich das die Fälle nicht ordnungsgemäß geprüft werden und es aufgrund dessen vermert Leute gibt die zu Unrecht gebannt worden sind. Niemand sagt das der Algorithmus zu 100% recht hat , selbst Lichess gibt ja zu das die eine Grauziffer haben, Ihnen fehlt nur das Personal einzeln die Fälle, anscheinend, zu prüfen.

Es ist einfach nur wieder mal ein Beweis dafür, dass niemand Onlineschach überhalb eines Bullettempos cheatingsicher veranstalten kann. Nichtmal eine Webcam schützt dafür, der Fall Petrosian ist dafür nur ein Beispiel en.chessbase.com/post/cheating-controversy-at-prochessleague

@Riffecs said in #14:

> Das Problem mit dem Cheaten hast du sowohl bei online als auch bei offline Turnieren in gleichem Verhältnis. Dabei ist bei offline Turnieren sogar deutlich einfacher, weil keiner davon ausgeht.

Tut mir leid, aber das ist einfach Quatsch. Beim Onlineschach sitzt man bei jedem Zug unbeobachtet vor dem elektronischen Gerät, bei OTB muss man aber mindestens auf Toilette verschwinden, was nach einiger Zeit auffällig ist. Zudem ist Cheating bei OTB-Schnellschachturnieren nahezu ausgeschlossen.

Disclaimer: I do not know if Moritex cheated. However, in the video linked above, he is speculating endlessly about what might have gotten him tagged.

Strangely, he spends very little time discussing his classical games. Again, I am not saying he cheated. But the classical games are by far the most suspicious. This is why:

- In the last 15 or so games I checked, he never ever makes any kind of mistake that matters. The graphs of the computer analysis are much smoother.than what is usual for human players.

- Some of the games have ridiculously low centipawn losses. Even if you control for the complexity of the positions.

- The playing quality in his classical games is much better than in his rapid and blitz games. Looking at the former, I would guess he is at least 2600 fide. The way he plays rapid and blitz he should be 2100-2200 at most.

AFAIK, he does not have any otb fide rating, just an ancient German rating. If he is that good at slow chess, he should probably start competing in serious otb tournaments...

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@BaalRhon

First of all, what do you mean by "classical games"? There must have been games he played while streaming that you checked out. Have you watched his streams and compared the streams to the games? He probably didn't cheat in his streams. It would also be helpful if you post some games that you find suspicious.

Furthermore, he plays more rapid chess than classical chess. And in classical chess, by nature, you have more time to think. Maybe that's where his better games come from.
And that he speculates as to why Lichess marked him is hardly surprising. Lichess says nothing specific. He has no choice but to speculate. That's what makes it so difficult to appeal against it. Any accused murderer will be given more rights.

It remains to be said that one does not know whether he cheated. But Lichess doesn't do that. Lichess says he cheated.

It is also suspicious that he was marked shortly after drawing against an IM. This suggests that it was reported by the IM. And that was a 3+3 blitz game. So no classical chess.

@Riffecs

Kannst du deine Behauptung, die du #14 gemacht hast, irgendwie belegen? Das hätte ich gerne mal gesehen.

I also watched the video of the above mentioned streamer Moritex. I was indeed shocked how lichess was treating him.
The tone of the messages from lichess to him was rude and the content showed, that the according lichess mod didn't even care to investigate that matter. Moritex didn't even get a message on his ban (he was informed by another user, that his account was blocked), neither did he know what the accusations against him were in the first place.

It is very sad, that lichess lost one important member of the community. As mentioned above he himself was a big contributer and supporter to lichess over the last 5 years. He made very instructive streams/videos from his live games - much more to learn from him, than from any streamer battle or other "entertainment" stream. (He is continuing to stream, but now, understandable, from another internet chess paltform.)
I'm quite sure, as a result from that video some more players decided to leave lichess or at least reduce their support.

I personally gave lichess 5€ per month over the last 41 month. I will stop that immediately, cause I am no longer unexceptional convinced of the idea of this platform. As much as I support free content, open source and all the work that was invested here (I think my monthly payment is evidence enough for that statement being true), I also believe in manners and respect for human beings. The way Moritex was treated here just doesn't feel right to me.