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I watched Hans on twitch... So many people pay real money... If he cheated in online chess while streaming, he should even be made to refund all twitch subs.
And if he cheated irl... Chess career over as well.
And if he cheated irl... Chess career over as well.
Hans Niemann is a known cheater. And that's the thing with cheaters: they can't stop cheating.
Quite frankly... I don't really believe he beat Carlsen fairly. There is no proof he cheated, but I don't trust this guy at all. He seems like the kind of guy that takes pride in getting away with cheating.
Quite frankly... I don't really believe he beat Carlsen fairly. There is no proof he cheated, but I don't trust this guy at all. He seems like the kind of guy that takes pride in getting away with cheating.
Before I comment on this matter, let's look at some of the events of the past related to cheating at chess
(and all other games with money involved).
There have been several things in the last 1000 years documented:
A King ordered the death penalty for a suspected cheater around 800 years ago,more recently they caught a player using an earpiece to receive the best moves, and this other guy got caught using the bathroom to consult an engine on a phone.
This new story, well there might be a new technique for unfair play, that's not yet been found out.
I'm not saying that H.Niemann cheated, but there is no guarantee.
(and all other games with money involved).
There have been several things in the last 1000 years documented:
A King ordered the death penalty for a suspected cheater around 800 years ago,more recently they caught a player using an earpiece to receive the best moves, and this other guy got caught using the bathroom to consult an engine on a phone.
This new story, well there might be a new technique for unfair play, that's not yet been found out.
I'm not saying that H.Niemann cheated, but there is no guarantee.
bytheway: I dont buy the "sore loser carlsen" theory. neither I think 3000 elo are as important for him as some people say. He wants hard and fair fights. He loves the game.
If any player would have had some forseeing vision at night and morgan freeman told him "why not check that rare nimzocat line ..." he would be stupid not to do this. But would he tell Ramirez ... "well I had a dream"?
Maybe there are other opportunities to learn about opponents preparation. The weakness of companies IT are far more often humans plugging unchecked usb sticks in slots than some pizza eating hacker geniusses far away. It is easier to steal preparation from a smartphone or some other device than transmitting moves without any metal during a game. this doesnt mean anyone has done this. But becoming a GOAT in cheat is easier than becoming chess world champion. If Niemann cheatet, his chess career might "end" , but there are plenty opportunities for him to start over. Writing a book only one of them. "wasty hasty 18th". Good luck!
If any player would have had some forseeing vision at night and morgan freeman told him "why not check that rare nimzocat line ..." he would be stupid not to do this. But would he tell Ramirez ... "well I had a dream"?
Maybe there are other opportunities to learn about opponents preparation. The weakness of companies IT are far more often humans plugging unchecked usb sticks in slots than some pizza eating hacker geniusses far away. It is easier to steal preparation from a smartphone or some other device than transmitting moves without any metal during a game. this doesnt mean anyone has done this. But becoming a GOAT in cheat is easier than becoming chess world champion. If Niemann cheatet, his chess career might "end" , but there are plenty opportunities for him to start over. Writing a book only one of them. "wasty hasty 18th". Good luck!
I have now been watching the stream from Sinquefield cup round 3. I did not become less suspicious. After many of the moves from Magnus, Hans just sat and stared out in the air to the left. And while Magnus sat and stared with a worried face for a long time onto the board, Hans just kept staring out in the air. While it was Hans to move, he sometimes stared onto the board with no worried face expression, then out in the air before he suddenly made the move quite effortlessly. Sorry, But now I am getting very paranoid. I for sure can not still believe that he cheated. I hope, of course, that he did not.
So far we know only two things with slightly different degrees of certainty:
1. Magnus Carlsen has withdrawn from the Sinquefield Cup (100% certain)
2. Suspecting Hans Niemann of foul play is the reason he withdrew (99% certain)
Everything else is speculation at this moment. We need to wait and see. Everyone seems to be on the edge right now, which is understandable, given the situation, but there's no need to say things one may regret later, no need to drag anyone's reputation through the mud without solid evidence.
1. Magnus Carlsen has withdrawn from the Sinquefield Cup (100% certain)
2. Suspecting Hans Niemann of foul play is the reason he withdrew (99% certain)
Everything else is speculation at this moment. We need to wait and see. Everyone seems to be on the edge right now, which is understandable, given the situation, but there's no need to say things one may regret later, no need to drag anyone's reputation through the mud without solid evidence.
Just wondering: what is the percent of official games played by player with rating close to that of Niemann's with such accuracy? Or probability?
@ohcomeon_1 said in #37:
> So far we know only two things with slightly different degrees of certainty:
>
> 1. Magnus Carlsen has withdrawn from the Sinquefield Cup (100% certain)
> 2. Suspecting Hans Niemann of foul play is the reason he withdrew (99% certain)
>
> Everything else is speculation at this moment. We need to wait and see. Everyone seems to be on the edge right now. There's no need to say things one may regret later, no need to drag anyone's reputation through the mud without solid evidence.
Quite frankly... if Carlsen genuinely believes Niemann cheated, I'd say that it's almost a certainty that he cheated. Carlsen isn't as good as chess com or lichess cheat detection, but definitely the next best thing.
I do wonder if we're going to get definite proof for this particular game. But the thing about cheaters is... they just can't stop cheating. Niemann will be caught, sooner or later. It's inevitable. And when he is, we'll all be looking at Carlsen's withdrawal in a different light.
For now... I have complete trust in Carlsen's judgement in this. And I definitely don't believe the 'sore loser' theory. Carlsen loves the game too much to quit over a single loss.
> So far we know only two things with slightly different degrees of certainty:
>
> 1. Magnus Carlsen has withdrawn from the Sinquefield Cup (100% certain)
> 2. Suspecting Hans Niemann of foul play is the reason he withdrew (99% certain)
>
> Everything else is speculation at this moment. We need to wait and see. Everyone seems to be on the edge right now. There's no need to say things one may regret later, no need to drag anyone's reputation through the mud without solid evidence.
Quite frankly... if Carlsen genuinely believes Niemann cheated, I'd say that it's almost a certainty that he cheated. Carlsen isn't as good as chess com or lichess cheat detection, but definitely the next best thing.
I do wonder if we're going to get definite proof for this particular game. But the thing about cheaters is... they just can't stop cheating. Niemann will be caught, sooner or later. It's inevitable. And when he is, we'll all be looking at Carlsen's withdrawal in a different light.
For now... I have complete trust in Carlsen's judgement in this. And I definitely don't believe the 'sore loser' theory. Carlsen loves the game too much to quit over a single loss.
@Molurus said in #39:
> Quite frankly... if Carlsen genuinely believes Niemann cheated, I'd say that it's almost a certainty that he cheated. Carlsen isn't as good as chess com or lichess cheat detection, but definitely the next best thing.
>
> I do wonder if we're going to get definite proof for this particular game. But the thing about cheaters is... they just can't stop cheating. Niemann will be caught, sooner or later. It's inevitable. And when he is, we'll all be looking at Carlsen's withdrawal in a different light.
>
> For now... I have complete trust in Carlsen's judgement in this. And I definitely don't believe the 'sore loser' theory. Carlsen loves the game too much to quit over a single loss.
False accusation of a crime is almost always as bad as (and often worse than) the crime itself. And in the case of cheating false accusation is infinitely worse than actual cheating. The victim of cheating is only robbed of one, maybe a few games, while the victim of a false accusation may have his/her entire career/life ruined for no reason. So I prefer to err on the side of being extremely cautious. Innocent until proven guilty is a good principle.
> Quite frankly... if Carlsen genuinely believes Niemann cheated, I'd say that it's almost a certainty that he cheated. Carlsen isn't as good as chess com or lichess cheat detection, but definitely the next best thing.
>
> I do wonder if we're going to get definite proof for this particular game. But the thing about cheaters is... they just can't stop cheating. Niemann will be caught, sooner or later. It's inevitable. And when he is, we'll all be looking at Carlsen's withdrawal in a different light.
>
> For now... I have complete trust in Carlsen's judgement in this. And I definitely don't believe the 'sore loser' theory. Carlsen loves the game too much to quit over a single loss.
False accusation of a crime is almost always as bad as (and often worse than) the crime itself. And in the case of cheating false accusation is infinitely worse than actual cheating. The victim of cheating is only robbed of one, maybe a few games, while the victim of a false accusation may have his/her entire career/life ruined for no reason. So I prefer to err on the side of being extremely cautious. Innocent until proven guilty is a good principle.
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