@jeffforever reading comprehension? What is that? LOL.
(I was not following other threads, will do that now).
(I was not following other threads, will do that now).
@odoaker2015
There really is a lot of room for the interpretation and/or specific mechanics of "a swiss tournament". Thus there are quite a lot of variants, not all of which consider "you will never play each other twice" a strict requirement.
The spirit of swiss is that you play against as many different players as possible and as close to you score as possible.
"Possible" being a key word here. If a strict adherence to these pairing goals isn't possible you can and I think should allow for "the next best thing".
There really is a lot of room for the interpretation and/or specific mechanics of "a swiss tournament". Thus there are quite a lot of variants, not all of which consider "you will never play each other twice" a strict requirement.
The spirit of swiss is that you play against as many different players as possible and as close to you score as possible.
"Possible" being a key word here. If a strict adherence to these pairing goals isn't possible you can and I think should allow for "the next best thing".
So, I don't think there is much room for interpretation. There are clear rules for the Swiss system. As I said, I was therefore no longer able to draw the next round. The software did not allow any more pairings or draws. At some point the limits of the system will be reached!
But that should be enough now. I have more than explained my point of view. And I hope my reasoning was now more conclusive for others also!
@Molurus
But that should be enough now. I have more than explained my point of view. And I hope my reasoning was now more conclusive for others also!
@Molurus
@DiplomatChess I placed myself as leader of your team and had the swiss option. Something is wrong on your end maybe.
In FIDE rated OTB I have seen players playing those with 2 points less in the last round because they had already played the other players in between.
@odoaker2015
From the FIDE rules on Swiss tournaments:
http://www.rrweb.org/javafo/C04.pdf
"B Pairing Criteria
Absolute Criteria
(These may not be violated. If necessary players will be moved down to a lower score bracket.)
B.1 a Two players shall not meet more than once.
b A player who has received a point or half point without playing, either through a bye or due
to an opponent not appearing in time, is a downfloater (see A4) and shall not receive a bye.
B.2 Two players with the same absolute colour preference (see A7.a) shall not meet (therefore no player’s
colour difference will become >+2 or < -2 nor a player will receive the same colour three times in row)"
Absolute criteria... may not be violated... two players shall not meet more than once!
At a first glance this would seem to support your position. But look very carefully at what it says:
-->> ** If necessary players will be moved down to a lower score bracket. ** <<--
If you apply this, you can always have an N round swiss tournament with N+1 players. (Which of course would, effectively, be a round robin tournament.)
Personally I think it would make more sense to abandon the 'not playing the same player twice' requirement before the 'same score bracket' requirement, simply because it's much more interesting to pair players with similar scores. Apparently FIDE does it the other way around.
In any case, if pairing fails, one of the two requirements will have to give way. It definitely beats "sorry, we can't pair anymore". And I'm not surprised this has been forseen in the FIDE rules for it. Nor am I surprised that some pairing applications fail to implement these rules, at least regarding moving players down score brackets to solve potential dead locks. This likely is the reason your pairing program refuses to make a pairing after a certain number of rounds. (And as such I would call it a bug.)
From the FIDE rules on Swiss tournaments:
http://www.rrweb.org/javafo/C04.pdf
"B Pairing Criteria
Absolute Criteria
(These may not be violated. If necessary players will be moved down to a lower score bracket.)
B.1 a Two players shall not meet more than once.
b A player who has received a point or half point without playing, either through a bye or due
to an opponent not appearing in time, is a downfloater (see A4) and shall not receive a bye.
B.2 Two players with the same absolute colour preference (see A7.a) shall not meet (therefore no player’s
colour difference will become >+2 or < -2 nor a player will receive the same colour three times in row)"
Absolute criteria... may not be violated... two players shall not meet more than once!
At a first glance this would seem to support your position. But look very carefully at what it says:
-->> ** If necessary players will be moved down to a lower score bracket. ** <<--
If you apply this, you can always have an N round swiss tournament with N+1 players. (Which of course would, effectively, be a round robin tournament.)
Personally I think it would make more sense to abandon the 'not playing the same player twice' requirement before the 'same score bracket' requirement, simply because it's much more interesting to pair players with similar scores. Apparently FIDE does it the other way around.
In any case, if pairing fails, one of the two requirements will have to give way. It definitely beats "sorry, we can't pair anymore". And I'm not surprised this has been forseen in the FIDE rules for it. Nor am I surprised that some pairing applications fail to implement these rules, at least regarding moving players down score brackets to solve potential dead locks. This likely is the reason your pairing program refuses to make a pairing after a certain number of rounds. (And as such I would call it a bug.)
@Sazed Is there a way I can submit a screen shot of my team page? I'm not all that knowledgable when it comes to computers, but can't think of anything that would be wrong on my end with Chrome to make the feature not show up.
I'm having same problem as Sazed. I can create arena tournaments for my teams but the Swiss option does not show. I have 2 teams. One I created the other I am co-leader. Same result - no Swiss
Really nice feature! If you want to play swiss tournaments often join this team!
lichess.org/team/swish-tournaments
lichess.org/team/swish-tournaments
About round robin, is double round robin also planned when each player plays each as white and black?
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