President of Norwegian Chess Federation confesses to cheating online

@Nomoreusernames said in #39:

> There is actually proof of him cheating whether or not Naroditsky is a Magnus fan. It is actually cheating according to the rules, and therefore Magnus is not "beyond reproach on the issue of cheating", You literally looked at him cheating, and then lie to yourself. I would probably agree on many other matters with you, but until you realise that you are forcing yourself to believe something which is provably false, you are not believable.

Oh the drama! But anyway...

I very clearly said it is technically cheating. I agree with you on that. But you're missing the point I'm trying to make - most (but not all) people think that this is not a *meaningful* example of cheating. The fact that *there is no agreement* shows we don't think of online the same as otb. That's the problem. If it was otb, there'd be no such disagreement.

@Nomoreusernames said in #39:
> There is actually proof of him cheating whether or not Naroditsky is a Magnus fan. It is actually cheating according to the rules, and therefore Magnus is not "beyond reproach on the issue of cheating", You literally looked at him cheating, and then lie to yourself. I would probably agree on many other matters with you, but until you realise that you are forcing yourself to believe something which is provably false, you are not believable.

The thing is -- when wrong-doing occurs, whether that's cheating, gaslighting, which sadly they have been doing a lot of lately; or some other thing (plenty of those), it's not the person who does it who gets to say it's okay or not. You can't just say, "The rules don't apply to me, it doesn't matter if I cheat." It does matter, quite a lot when Carlsen cheats because he is a grandmaster. Aryan Tari and Eric Hansen had much longer sessions of collusion, where they are literally playing 2-on-1 verse whomever they are playing against. Who knows how many more times it happens off-stream?

The patterns of hostility and gaslighting are very clear in the camp who makes it speciously obvious they think it's okay for them to cheat and break the rules as much as they please.

@ClayAndSilence said in #41:
> Oh the drama! But anyway...
>
> I very clearly said it is technically cheating. I agree with you on that. But you're missing the point I'm trying to make - most (but not all) people think that this is not a *meaningful* example of cheating. The fact that *there is no agreement* shows we don't think of online the same as otb. That's the problem. If it was otb, there'd be no such disagreement.
I agree with you about that.

@MidiChlorianCount said in #9:
> I was thinking that Hikaru or whomever else doing their speed runs is the same thing - multi accounting to get a sandbag effect rating, purely for entertainment purposes but also listed as against "fair play" terms and conditions.

First a short explanation why speed runs are so popular: Twitch used to be a mostly gaming streaming site and speed runs in games (mostly classics like super Mario) are all the rage. Twitch viewers will constantly ask for this kind of content. So naturally once twitch becomes an essential part of your revenue you will oblige.
You can do so in a fail-proof way that will harm nobody permanently. I believe it was danya (but I could be wrong): anyways that streamer said he registered his noob bashing account with the chess site and once the run is finished people will receive back their rating - plus a free coaching lesson of a grandmaster on YT as reparation for their emotional damage I want to add.

> The problem is that they clearly did not see online chess as equivalent to a OTB blue ribbon standard but now they would like it to be judged retrospectively as such.

It’s not as much a problem as a question I think: how would we like those different companies and institutions of the chess world to interact with each other. Is there a need to combine efforts to combat cheating and how practical would it be? Who would set those rules and who would watch over them and how much would that cost?
Im glad im a scrub player, so people cheating against me must be equally bad at cheating than at chess. If you think about what kind of time investment it takes and what dedication to actually get good at this game and to keep playing on top level on the other hand, I think most people that take chess seriously would agree that they want that blue, nay gold ribbon standard.

such exciting news.

Kinda respectable that his conscience makes him confess and resign.

People saying 'Magnus didn't really cheat"
remind of how when someone says " Sorry about.... but "; it is best to disregard everything before the "but'

Magnus received outside help, as others have said he could have immediately resigned those games, but chose not to, and in fact made the moves his friends recommended.
He could also have told his friends to shut up and moved a different piece, which would have shown he cares about the integrity of the game.
People can argue different shades of grey, yet should admit that to be a shade of gray requires a bit of dirt.

However, more important than this discussion, is "What comes next"?
It seems obvious change and correction is required; perhaps it is time to pool our collective thoughts about how to fix this and ensure things get better.

Shall online tourney players be required to get more cameras, that would show the room and keyboard area?
During tourney play, can a person grant access, to their computer, to a short lived program that monitors if the player has multiple prgrams running?

There is no way on Earth that video of Carlsen is an example of cheating. He was hanging out with friends, the money prize was small in comparison to his outcome (no disrepect), and Carlsen himself was streaming. It makes no sense at all.

That said, I also think his attitude towards Niemann was not correct. If you have evidence, you show it. If you don't, you may have suspicions but you must play.

I hope the whole thing will get clearer with time, sorry for being off-topic but I wanted to react about the former claim.

Magnus' "cheating" is like if I'm walking down the street and some girl flashes me her boobs and i look for a fraction of a second before gouging my eyes out as I tell my wife what happened

Hans' CHEATING is like me taking that girl to a motel and carrying on a years long affair.

There are levels to this.

@loverofvirtue said in #48:
> Magnus' "cheating" is like if I'm walking down the street and some girl flashes me her boobs and i look for a fraction of a second before gouging my eyes out as I tell my wife what happened
>
> Hans' CHEATING is like me taking that girl to a motel and carrying on a years long affair.
>
> There are levels to this.

close, but as Magnus actually made the moves his friends recommended, it is more like .. A gal flashed him, and he got a couple of squeezes in"

@loverofvirtue said in #48:
> There are levels to this.

That's the problem.