I actually now a days play it as my go to opening. Even though I am "retired" from any sort of competitive play whatsoever including otb rated games I do play it massively every day on casual chess lichess. Mostly as an anon. It is the only thing I play against e4 anymore. Occasionally ill play e5 but its so rare id not even call it occasional. Also I think its a better try than the regular alekhine after study. My student @chennis agrees. Its funny someone else found it too. But seriously though its the only thing I play anymore.
Maybe after 4 Nf3 black should just exchange. Example
I've done more analysis on this and it really deserves, but still enjoy playing it. 4. f4 is, in my opinion, the start of a refutation. While white can get a comfortable and slightly better position when playing the more natural Nf3, this doesn't promise him a larger edge than he gets out of the normal Alekhine mainlines. It still gives him a good position without having to find any hard moves however, so that kind of disputes this being good even as a surprise weapon.
On 4. f4, c5 is just not good (someone suggested that on a previous page here), as white is simply much better after both 5. d5 and 5. dxc5.
I've been playing 4. f4 Bf5, when after something like 5. Nf3 e6 6. Bd3 Nh6 black isn't totally lost and might have practical chances... But it's still bad.
If white reacts to 4. f4 Bf5 with 5. g4 however, black's in big trouble. 5... Bd7 6. Nc3 e6 7. Nf3 Ne7 8. Bd3 dxe5 9. fxe5 c5 10. Bg5 and it's time to pray.
In short, I couldn't find any satisfactory move at all after 4. f4. Note that this analysis was all done nearly a year ago and not on particularly good hardware, so SF9 might point out serious flaws in the line above. I don't think it will really affect the conclusion though.
On 4. f4, c5 is just not good (someone suggested that on a previous page here), as white is simply much better after both 5. d5 and 5. dxc5.
I've been playing 4. f4 Bf5, when after something like 5. Nf3 e6 6. Bd3 Nh6 black isn't totally lost and might have practical chances... But it's still bad.
If white reacts to 4. f4 Bf5 with 5. g4 however, black's in big trouble. 5... Bd7 6. Nc3 e6 7. Nf3 Ne7 8. Bd3 dxe5 9. fxe5 c5 10. Bg5 and it's time to pray.
In short, I couldn't find any satisfactory move at all after 4. f4. Note that this analysis was all done nearly a year ago and not on particularly good hardware, so SF9 might point out serious flaws in the line above. I don't think it will really affect the conclusion though.
@nh78 Why are you speaking in this tone? I only express my honest opinion on this topic and not trying to agitate someone playing exactly those lines.
I don't understand your hints since the games posted by you in #18 are not very likely to transpose into lines I mentioned above, as in your case white has the pawn on f2 blocked by the knight on f3, and in the context I suggested ...c5 it was already exchanged to the d7 pawn.
I never said that the position after 3rd move in the game I posted is okay to go into. It just happened that that game transposed into the variation I find okay.
I don't understand your hints since the games posted by you in #18 are not very likely to transpose into lines I mentioned above, as in your case white has the pawn on f2 blocked by the knight on f3, and in the context I suggested ...c5 it was already exchanged to the d7 pawn.
I never said that the position after 3rd move in the game I posted is okay to go into. It just happened that that game transposed into the variation I find okay.
@Wolfram_EP
Why are _you_ speaking in such a tone? I am correcting your weak lines. This is called chess analysis. Further, even if you would have posted the game with the correct move order: 7 Nc3, which you do not mention, gives white a clear advantage. Your arguments are weak. At least in this thread you have this in common with @tpr . I - and i am not the only one - dont support your and @tpr s Ng8 agenda, live with it. But i just disagree with you in the subject, i have no prejudices against you as a man. I hope you believe me that, if not i can not help you :-)
@tpr
yes, 4 ... dxe5 (in the Nf3 line) is blacks best move. I would play 6 Bd3, followed by Qe2, 0-0, Nd2-f3 against the setup in the game you posted. Once white has reached this setup it starts to look uncomfy again for black.
@yago666
i like your analysis, 4 f4 may indeed be even better than 4 Nf3. 4 f4 dxe5 fxe5 c5 d5 e6 (see #11) Nc3 is one of the critical lines. The question is if white is better here or in the line 4 Nf3 dxe5. Probably in the f4 line is my guess.
Why are _you_ speaking in such a tone? I am correcting your weak lines. This is called chess analysis. Further, even if you would have posted the game with the correct move order: 7 Nc3, which you do not mention, gives white a clear advantage. Your arguments are weak. At least in this thread you have this in common with @tpr . I - and i am not the only one - dont support your and @tpr s Ng8 agenda, live with it. But i just disagree with you in the subject, i have no prejudices against you as a man. I hope you believe me that, if not i can not help you :-)
@tpr
yes, 4 ... dxe5 (in the Nf3 line) is blacks best move. I would play 6 Bd3, followed by Qe2, 0-0, Nd2-f3 against the setup in the game you posted. Once white has reached this setup it starts to look uncomfy again for black.
@yago666
i like your analysis, 4 f4 may indeed be even better than 4 Nf3. 4 f4 dxe5 fxe5 c5 d5 e6 (see #11) Nc3 is one of the critical lines. The question is if white is better here or in the line 4 Nf3 dxe5. Probably in the f4 line is my guess.
Calling arguments weak is a weak argument.
Interesting lines are given in #14: on 4 f4 Nh6 and on 4 Nf3 Bg4 5 h3 Bh5
Interesting lines are given in #14: on 4 f4 Nh6 and on 4 Nf3 Bg4 5 h3 Bh5
4 f4 Nh6 Nf3 clear advantage.
4 Nf3 Bg4 h3 Bh5 g4 Bg6 e6 clear advantage.
4 Nf3 Bg4 h3 Bh5 g4 Bg6 e6 clear advantage.
OP, You might not like what I'm about to tell you, but you should hear it from someone.
The opening you're looking into is bad. You should probably for a start take a look at some more classical openings that fight for the center more aggressively.
Also, hopefully this doesn't make me sound arrogant or condescending, but given what I've seen of your play, I think you should more focus on basic tactic training, calculation and pattern recognition, rather than looking too deeply into bizarre subvariations of dubious openings.. If you're seeking to improve as a chess player that is.
However, if you're having fun doing what you're doing, by all means, that's the most important thing in chess
Cheers mate, all the best of luck
The opening you're looking into is bad. You should probably for a start take a look at some more classical openings that fight for the center more aggressively.
Also, hopefully this doesn't make me sound arrogant or condescending, but given what I've seen of your play, I think you should more focus on basic tactic training, calculation and pattern recognition, rather than looking too deeply into bizarre subvariations of dubious openings.. If you're seeking to improve as a chess player that is.
However, if you're having fun doing what you're doing, by all means, that's the most important thing in chess
Cheers mate, all the best of luck
#28 I beg to disagree. Should he really play the Marshall Gambit of the Ruy Lopez with 30 moves of theory? Would he improve as a chess player if he devotes all his available time trying to study all these deep lines of such a classical opening that fights the centre agressively?
If he feels at ease with a position with less space then he should continue to play this Brooklyn Variation of the Alekhine Defence and start playing real chess on move 2, not on move 30.
I agree that OP should focus on tactics training, calculation and pattern recognition. This implies that he should not spend time on looking deeply into any subvariations of any opening. An unusual opening like Brooklyn Variation of Alekhine's Defence is more suitable to that purpose.
Here is another game. White was a very strong grandmaster, many times World Championship candidate, black was World Champion. It was long time control 2.5 h/40 moves. Black lost, but not because of the opening.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1460719
If he feels at ease with a position with less space then he should continue to play this Brooklyn Variation of the Alekhine Defence and start playing real chess on move 2, not on move 30.
I agree that OP should focus on tactics training, calculation and pattern recognition. This implies that he should not spend time on looking deeply into any subvariations of any opening. An unusual opening like Brooklyn Variation of Alekhine's Defence is more suitable to that purpose.
Here is another game. White was a very strong grandmaster, many times World Championship candidate, black was World Champion. It was long time control 2.5 h/40 moves. Black lost, but not because of the opening.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1460719
Of course black lost because of the opening, White was always better. Good scheme f game, will be helpful against all kinds of black setups. First white brings the pieces to good squares, N to f4, B to b1, then he prevents blacks counterplay on queenside with b4-b5, finally he breaks through on king side with g4 and h5.
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