Ukraine broke through the first defense line

@Raspberry_yoghurt said in #20:
> Yes it is just insanity that countries defend themselves when they get invaded.
>
> What's next? Will people also start dislike being murdered?
it is difficult to understand which country is being occupied.
without a doubt, the centuries-old Russian territory will be freed from militants, terrorists and invaders.

@Netblaty said in #21:
> it is difficult to understand which country is being occupied.

No it isn't. Russia invaded Ukraine.

>without a doubt, the centuries-old Russian territory will be freed from militants, terrorists and invaders.

That's a bit more far out than even the Kremlin propaganda. Russia btw itself drew the border of Ukraine that Russia crossed then they invaded.

Zelensky has Biden by the balls.
How is it in the United States' interest to get into a war with Russia?

@KNIGHT_c4 said in #23:
> Zelensky has Biden by the balls.
> How is it in the United States' interest to get into a war with Russia?

USA isn't getting into an actual war with Russia.

Anyway, US business & security depends on the general world order that arose after wwII and that USA largely created. So USA has a big interest in keeping that world order, hence USA has an interest in helping Ukraine.

On top of that, a lot of the military equipment they're giving Ukraine is mostly old stuff USA doesn't even need.

Like the 100 Bradleys USA gave to Ukraine. They were produced 1980-1995, USA decided to replace them 17 years ago and the replacement is on it's way.

So from the US side, they're furthering US interests at a big discount.

@Waiting4BirnamWood said in #25:
> @Raspberry_yoghurt #24:
>
> Good point. There is no doubt that the United States is the most important partner when it comes to supplying military equipment to Ukraine. But in my country's media, the American interests behind these deliveries usually appear only rudimentary, as if the Good Samaritan were sitting in the White House.

Yes well, sadly today Western media want to simplify everything.

My impression though is that many US politicians do seem to have a genuine sorta emotional motive to help Ukraine.. They're not like ONLY being calculative and scheming about what's best for USA. It's a bit of both I reckon.

USA has been sending help to Ukraine since 2014, also under Trump. He tried to blackmail Ukraine at one point by withholding the aid, something about Biden's son, but overall help was coming in under Trump, and he was weirdly also the first to send anti-tank missiles.

it's true the US is not at this point in an actual war with Russia. since it "helped" Ukraine by instigating a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government in 2014, it has been bent on using Ukraine as a catspaw against Russia, it's relatively risk free for the US as long as you place zero value on Ukrainian and Russian lives, and advances it's purported "interests" although the benefit to ordinary US citizens of risking nuclear war to keep US supremacy in the world is a fraud.

meanwhile, the counteroffensive continues to fail, and varies factions in Ukraine and the US are gearing up to blame each other for the defeat.

@pretzelattack1 said in #27:
> it's true the US is not at this point in an actual war with Russia. since it "helped" Ukraine by instigating a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government in 2014, it has been bent on using Ukraine as a catspaw against Russia,

This is tin foil hat fantasies. Euromaidan was a public uprising because the presiden refused to sign a deal with the EU plus shot some demonstraters with snipers. US had nothing to do with it.

Btw the president actually left Ukraine - he didn't get overthrown. Buy yeah, if your president goes AWOL it's fait enough you replace him lol

>it's relatively risk free for the US as long as you place zero value on Ukrainian and Russian lives,

The Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to fight.

As well, many countries are helping Ukraine.

> meanwhile, the counteroffensive continues to fail,

How is it a failure to break through defense line number one?

When you attack, what you want to do if break through defense lines. So if you manage to do that, it's a success.

There's two months left two fight. Assuming that the Ukrainians keep advancing at the same page, then they do get to Tokmak in those 2 months. The last bit of defense supposedly is softer than what they broke through so far.

@KNIGHT_c4 said in #23:
>
We shouldn't have given them any aid. Sort it out yourselves

@Erisian said in #29:
> We shouldn't have given them any aid. Sort it out yourselves

I'll just have it noted here that around 14 countries in East Europe will consider USA to be a nation of notorious backstabbers for like 100 years (they have long memories!) if US gets them into NATO and then sits on it's hands when there's a war on their doorstep.

USA cannot keep the alliances that makes everything easier for USA without making it attractive to be an ally of he US.

USA could choose to just leave NATO and isolate itself, but it would make everything much more expensive and complicated.