I would appreciate if lichess shuts them out from the forum. It's like: oh, you violated the ToS in the playing section, wanna discuss though?
@Sarg0n Yeah if you look at #2 (the video) it says that when people say rude things they get unknowingly banned from forums and only other people that are shutbanned can see them trashtalking
They should regularly publish a best-of of that trashtalking, though...
Shadowbanning blah, give us device-fingerprinting!
#EDIT
Device-fingerprinting and perma-bans.
Probably not possible (and probably illegal on some level) but like you violate the ToS too many times and you cant make new account without either appealing or switching your network device. xD
#EDIT
Device-fingerprinting and perma-bans.
Probably not possible (and probably illegal on some level) but like you violate the ToS too many times and you cant make new account without either appealing or switching your network device. xD
> Consider the perspective of the shadowbanned users
The overwhelming majority are either chat abusers or cheaters. They still get to play games and use the chat, even if only with other shadowbanned players, so they aren't missing out on much. The only thing they're missing out on is being toxic to the respectful players and getting rating.
If a player is respectful and not a cheater and they get shadowbanned wrongfully, then they will quickly notice that things are different (that their rating isn't changing), and they will be led to the appeal page.
No one is missing out on anything.
As for donations, they're *donations*. The players are voluntarily DONATING to lichess, NOT paying for it. There's a big difference between the two.
Nobody is paying for lichess, therefore, fraud isn't happening.
(Side note: Even if people were paying for lichess, it still wouldn't be fraud. All users signed an agreement to follow the ToS. That's a legal contract, with consequences. You agree to the conseqences, so too bad.)
The overwhelming majority are either chat abusers or cheaters. They still get to play games and use the chat, even if only with other shadowbanned players, so they aren't missing out on much. The only thing they're missing out on is being toxic to the respectful players and getting rating.
If a player is respectful and not a cheater and they get shadowbanned wrongfully, then they will quickly notice that things are different (that their rating isn't changing), and they will be led to the appeal page.
No one is missing out on anything.
As for donations, they're *donations*. The players are voluntarily DONATING to lichess, NOT paying for it. There's a big difference between the two.
Nobody is paying for lichess, therefore, fraud isn't happening.
(Side note: Even if people were paying for lichess, it still wouldn't be fraud. All users signed an agreement to follow the ToS. That's a legal contract, with consequences. You agree to the conseqences, so too bad.)
@MarkIorio
This is your scenario
- I misuse Lichess > I get banned but I'm not told, and in a way that I can go on without being aware that I can't use Lichess full features anymore.
But reality is the scenario described in the video, "when people are rude it's quite easy to deal with. We give them a warning ...".
What is your solution to someone being warned and not changing their behavior that accomplishes all the required goals?
Stops the moderators from having to do unnecessary work
Stop everyone from having to see the material.
Doesn't encourage the person to create a new account.
It's easy to say Bad! Bad! Bad! Bad!
It's more challenging to come up with a better alternative. If someone doesn't change their behavior after being warned what would you suggest be done?
This is your scenario
- I misuse Lichess > I get banned but I'm not told, and in a way that I can go on without being aware that I can't use Lichess full features anymore.
But reality is the scenario described in the video, "when people are rude it's quite easy to deal with. We give them a warning ...".
What is your solution to someone being warned and not changing their behavior that accomplishes all the required goals?
Stops the moderators from having to do unnecessary work
Stop everyone from having to see the material.
Doesn't encourage the person to create a new account.
It's easy to say Bad! Bad! Bad! Bad!
It's more challenging to come up with a better alternative. If someone doesn't change their behavior after being warned what would you suggest be done?
@StingerPuzzles
"What is your solution to someone being warned and not changing their behaviour?"
That's not a problem at all. But shadowban can be different, when they don't warn you at all, you can silently be cast away into the 'dark lichess' - as they call it - without any warning.
And to all those who keep repeating ''you signed a TOS', well, the TOS is just wrong, if they accept donations from shadowbanned users.
"What is your solution to someone being warned and not changing their behaviour?"
That's not a problem at all. But shadowban can be different, when they don't warn you at all, you can silently be cast away into the 'dark lichess' - as they call it - without any warning.
And to all those who keep repeating ''you signed a TOS', well, the TOS is just wrong, if they accept donations from shadowbanned users.
When he says people who are shadow-banned are warned first I believe him.
@StingerPuzzles
Believe me, they don't. Not always. After all, if they warned all the times, ban wouldn't be that shadowy, don't you think? The whole idea is based on the underlying strategy, to keep people unaware of the fact that they have been banned.
Believe me, they don't. Not always. After all, if they warned all the times, ban wouldn't be that shadowy, don't you think? The whole idea is based on the underlying strategy, to keep people unaware of the fact that they have been banned.
People are usually warned, and then if bad behaviour continues, they risk being shadowbanned or having their accounts closed. And they know that.
Under certain circumstances accounts can be shadowbanned immediately if their behaviour is sufficiently bad. (But this would have to be really, really bad.)
==
People can choose to donate to Lichess.
People can also choose to cheat at chess on Lichess, or behave abusively.
Weirdly, there are some people who choose to do both, and I have zero sympathy for them.
Anybody who has ever paid the slightest attention to the rules that govern Lichess will understand, without any confusion, that:
a) cheating on Lichess will get your account closed.
b) behaving abusively in the chats or forums or private messages can result in warnings, bans, or account closures.
I simply don't understand what all the fuss is about, here.
If a generous Lichess patron is also a cheater, or a racist troll, or a pervy stalker, then take their generous donation and keep them away from the rest of us. You know, the rest of us, who are not verbally abusive engine users.
Shadowbanning gets this done nicely.
Under certain circumstances accounts can be shadowbanned immediately if their behaviour is sufficiently bad. (But this would have to be really, really bad.)
==
People can choose to donate to Lichess.
People can also choose to cheat at chess on Lichess, or behave abusively.
Weirdly, there are some people who choose to do both, and I have zero sympathy for them.
Anybody who has ever paid the slightest attention to the rules that govern Lichess will understand, without any confusion, that:
a) cheating on Lichess will get your account closed.
b) behaving abusively in the chats or forums or private messages can result in warnings, bans, or account closures.
I simply don't understand what all the fuss is about, here.
If a generous Lichess patron is also a cheater, or a racist troll, or a pervy stalker, then take their generous donation and keep them away from the rest of us. You know, the rest of us, who are not verbally abusive engine users.
Shadowbanning gets this done nicely.
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