I don't think irwin can be applied for OTB chess. At least not directly. It uses a lot of data that you can only gather online.
Also, before wanting to know too much, remember everyone, that in anti-cheating and cheating detection areas not everything can be said out loud!
Otherwise, the cheaters or cheating related people would have it easier to evade the security, to reverse engineer it, invent better cheating methods, etc. (not every cheating is "blatant" and easy to catch).
Even if mods and admins are doing great job in catching cheaters, they probably can't fully express it here and tell you everything, without leaking important informations.
I don't know how it looks like here on lichess, but I suppose this is how it usually works like, so be understanding in this matter :-)
Otherwise, the cheaters or cheating related people would have it easier to evade the security, to reverse engineer it, invent better cheating methods, etc. (not every cheating is "blatant" and easy to catch).
Even if mods and admins are doing great job in catching cheaters, they probably can't fully express it here and tell you everything, without leaking important informations.
I don't know how it looks like here on lichess, but I suppose this is how it usually works like, so be understanding in this matter :-)
following
i agree so many cheats i even gave up playing here and starting watching GM games
To all the people who complain about cheaters (you know who you are).
What happened did your computer lose?
What happened did your computer lose?
My experience with the response of the mods has been excellent. I forget exactly how many but I've reported half-a-dozen or so players I thought were cheating to the mods over about three years and most were corroborated as cheaters and banned.
(My rating is about 1500 too. So that comment that cheaters don't bother cheating against 1500 players is absolutely wrong.)
(My rating is about 1500 too. So that comment that cheaters don't bother cheating against 1500 players is absolutely wrong.)
Fact #1. About 75% of the people that I've reported have gotten banned. Sometimes within the hour, sometimes inside a week, and usually within a day or two.
Fact #2. Sometimes I get points returned even when it wasn't me that reported the cheater.
Conclusion: The facts indicate that there is a network of chess players that report suspicious play, and an anti-cheat team that investigates claims and ban the people that cheat. Points lost to cheaters, are returned.
Fact #3. It is malicious slander for people to come post lies about Lichess' "rampant cheating", "unchecked cheating", "indifference to cheating", or "allowing cheating".
-
Look. Not everyone is nice enough to win 30 straight and make their cheating blatantly obvious.
Fact #4. Having to investigate 100s of reports daily, where a team has to make concrete decisions as to if they should mark an account as cheating, would NOT be a job that I would want to be responsible for, much less pro bono.
Everyone should be grateful that a team of dedicated anti-cheat professionals are taking it upon themselves to investigate and ban cheaters here at Lichess.
They've earned our respect and accolades.
They do not deserve accusations of incompetence.
-
I've played on 8 different sites since internet chess began, and Lichess is the hands down best site.
-The whole interface is expansive.
-The study functions are tier one.
-The integrated opening book is stellar and I'm fairly certain that Lichess was the first to integrate it.
-The easy access to every game of every member, and many other integrated features, are all world class.
-The search engines that will find highly specific situations to study, is amazing.
-Integrated live-streaming functions.
-Libraries full of opening/ending study.
-Options to make your study public/friends-only/unlisted.
-And much much more.
-
From what I've seen not even the pay-sites compare, and not even close.
-
As for anti-cheat, it's impossible to really talk about more/less cheating, here/there, then/now, because we have no idea of the actual amount of cheating vs. the amount that's been detected.
Obviously there is an amount of speculation that can't be avoided.
With that said, given Facts #1 and #2 at the top of this post, it's clear that Lichess must AT LEAST be on par with all others when it comes to anti-cheat efforts.
-
In closing, if the mods won't close the accounts and muzzle these slanderous loud-mouths whom insist on lying and spouting their opinionated and accusatory insults and anti-facts, then let me at least say this to the those that want to tell lies/exaggerate about the cheating on Lichess...
...posting on these forums about "rampant cheating" and "mods don't care" makes you look like the kind of person that will blather on about their thoughts, ideas, and theories, no matter how much they fly in the face of the facts, just so long as you feel better.
Your loose comments are a slap in the face to whomever is on the other end of the SEVERAL DOZEN cheat reports that I've filed.
Spewing what you think and believe, makes you look self-absorbed and blissfully ignorant to everyone that *ACTUALLY* knows what you think it is that you are talking about.
-
To everyone else and in general...
...there is absolutely NOTHING to be gained from everyone wanting to enjoy some online chess, and having to steadily suspect their opponents of cheating.
I can provide an essay, that is easily twice the length of this chapter, which highlights how erosive constant suspicion about cheating actually is.
-
While legitimate talk/inquiry about cheating can't really be avoided, most of it can be kept to a minimum and answered with:
"If you think you see a cheater, report them. We have a dedicated anti-cheat system in place that will thoroughly investigate your claim."
On the other hand, slanderous lies and loose-talk about,"rampant cheating" and "Lichess mods don't do anything"...such comments should be warned/banned.
I argue the case that they should be warn/banned on the pragmatic basis of injuring the atmosphere for everyone that comes here expecting to play an honest game of chess, and also they should be warn/banned on the moral basis of the insult that this kind of drivel offers the anti-cheat team.
I can't imagine being on the anti-cheat division due to the amount of work that would be involved for some of these cases.
I definitely can't imagine having to constantly hear about how I'm "incompetent", "not trying", and/ "don't care".
If I were on the anti-cheat division, I would think to myself, "Can someone please shut up these stupid people talking dumb about my job? I find them irritating, and it's hard enough trying to cancel people who've made online chess into a game of, 'who can avoid anti-cheat the longest', without having to listen to these people drone on and on and on about things that they know very little about."
-
Bottom line?
Not only is Lichess better than all others in almost all areas...
Lichess is pretty much as good as we could imagine, much less hope for. Period.
The qualification of "for free" is not necessary.
Fact #2. Sometimes I get points returned even when it wasn't me that reported the cheater.
Conclusion: The facts indicate that there is a network of chess players that report suspicious play, and an anti-cheat team that investigates claims and ban the people that cheat. Points lost to cheaters, are returned.
Fact #3. It is malicious slander for people to come post lies about Lichess' "rampant cheating", "unchecked cheating", "indifference to cheating", or "allowing cheating".
-
Look. Not everyone is nice enough to win 30 straight and make their cheating blatantly obvious.
Fact #4. Having to investigate 100s of reports daily, where a team has to make concrete decisions as to if they should mark an account as cheating, would NOT be a job that I would want to be responsible for, much less pro bono.
Everyone should be grateful that a team of dedicated anti-cheat professionals are taking it upon themselves to investigate and ban cheaters here at Lichess.
They've earned our respect and accolades.
They do not deserve accusations of incompetence.
-
I've played on 8 different sites since internet chess began, and Lichess is the hands down best site.
-The whole interface is expansive.
-The study functions are tier one.
-The integrated opening book is stellar and I'm fairly certain that Lichess was the first to integrate it.
-The easy access to every game of every member, and many other integrated features, are all world class.
-The search engines that will find highly specific situations to study, is amazing.
-Integrated live-streaming functions.
-Libraries full of opening/ending study.
-Options to make your study public/friends-only/unlisted.
-And much much more.
-
From what I've seen not even the pay-sites compare, and not even close.
-
As for anti-cheat, it's impossible to really talk about more/less cheating, here/there, then/now, because we have no idea of the actual amount of cheating vs. the amount that's been detected.
Obviously there is an amount of speculation that can't be avoided.
With that said, given Facts #1 and #2 at the top of this post, it's clear that Lichess must AT LEAST be on par with all others when it comes to anti-cheat efforts.
-
In closing, if the mods won't close the accounts and muzzle these slanderous loud-mouths whom insist on lying and spouting their opinionated and accusatory insults and anti-facts, then let me at least say this to the those that want to tell lies/exaggerate about the cheating on Lichess...
...posting on these forums about "rampant cheating" and "mods don't care" makes you look like the kind of person that will blather on about their thoughts, ideas, and theories, no matter how much they fly in the face of the facts, just so long as you feel better.
Your loose comments are a slap in the face to whomever is on the other end of the SEVERAL DOZEN cheat reports that I've filed.
Spewing what you think and believe, makes you look self-absorbed and blissfully ignorant to everyone that *ACTUALLY* knows what you think it is that you are talking about.
-
To everyone else and in general...
...there is absolutely NOTHING to be gained from everyone wanting to enjoy some online chess, and having to steadily suspect their opponents of cheating.
I can provide an essay, that is easily twice the length of this chapter, which highlights how erosive constant suspicion about cheating actually is.
-
While legitimate talk/inquiry about cheating can't really be avoided, most of it can be kept to a minimum and answered with:
"If you think you see a cheater, report them. We have a dedicated anti-cheat system in place that will thoroughly investigate your claim."
On the other hand, slanderous lies and loose-talk about,"rampant cheating" and "Lichess mods don't do anything"...such comments should be warned/banned.
I argue the case that they should be warn/banned on the pragmatic basis of injuring the atmosphere for everyone that comes here expecting to play an honest game of chess, and also they should be warn/banned on the moral basis of the insult that this kind of drivel offers the anti-cheat team.
I can't imagine being on the anti-cheat division due to the amount of work that would be involved for some of these cases.
I definitely can't imagine having to constantly hear about how I'm "incompetent", "not trying", and/ "don't care".
If I were on the anti-cheat division, I would think to myself, "Can someone please shut up these stupid people talking dumb about my job? I find them irritating, and it's hard enough trying to cancel people who've made online chess into a game of, 'who can avoid anti-cheat the longest', without having to listen to these people drone on and on and on about things that they know very little about."
-
Bottom line?
Not only is Lichess better than all others in almost all areas...
Lichess is pretty much as good as we could imagine, much less hope for. Period.
The qualification of "for free" is not necessary.
Slow. Clap.
+1 #68
Nailed. It. (Thank. You.)
+1 #68
Nailed. It. (Thank. You.)
lichess is great..... what poor soul would cheat at online chess? It doesn't correlate to FIDE or USCF ratings. Sometimes I feel I've been cheated but after the anger subsides I realize I just made an impulsive move and my opponent capitalized.
There are also those cheaters who are just weak. They often lose against me in the last ten or twenty seconds, seemingly forgetting everything they knew about chess before. They would play for themselves then and their position would regularily collapse. Even after a win, I tend to report those cases as well, because I want them to disappear.
Besides: In parts I think the often praised anti-cheating screening modules are helpless against those who use the engine calculation only in critical situations (to crash through with an attack or to defend a difficult situation). This is much harder to detect.
Besides: In parts I think the often praised anti-cheating screening modules are helpless against those who use the engine calculation only in critical situations (to crash through with an attack or to defend a difficult situation). This is much harder to detect.
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