What country is the most brainwashed

When the scientists begin saying a tomato is not a tomato nor anything like a tomato, and the leading new theoretical physicists are now quietly and very seriously reexaming Kepler's cosmogram ... clearly everything's gone off the rails ...

Seems to me everybody's pretty much equally 'brainwashed' no matter who they are ... otherwise nobody at all would be socialized, no ?

@ChunHoLum said in #45:
> It would be your country for spreading lies
Google winnie the pooh

@Noflaps said in #48:
> @bfchessguy wrote:
>
> Rather than displaying your ignorance maybe you should take the time to read how it works in some countries. Sigh, end of discussion for me.
>
> Noflaps finds it interesting and surprisingly typical when insult is used to end civil discussion by those who seek to defend restrictions upon speech.
>
> And in response to @Coquelicoq, who seems quite civil, let me point out that even in free republics, majorities, even those formed by coalition, can be wrong. And who is to tell them that, if doing so is declared to be hateful and illegal? It astonishes that many would abandon individual freedom in favor of collective imposition. 1917 and 1939 appear to have faded in too many memories.

Com'on! After Coquelicoq gave the answer you keep asking " And who is to tell them that, if doing so is declared to be hateful and illegal? ". It is not respectful to keep pretending you've not been given an answer.

You're obviously not willing to spend time reading on the subject of what other countries are doing on the subject.

@dddelfin

The mysterious MuffinMan has not responded so far, so let me imitate his persuasive and "honest" style.

---

> 1. Which Ukrainian city got bombed since Feb 2022?
> 2. Which Russian city got bombed since Feb 2022?

the real question here is not which cities got bombed and when - although ukrainians without any doubt shelled cities in Donbas, as a part of their genocide against the peaceful Russian population - the real question here is why the cities were bombed at the first place and how to stop the war.

some people from the west wrongly assume that Russia started the war. in fact it was USA, who started the conflict back in 2014 with the coup where nationalists got in power and started the genocide in Donbas with more than 14 000 deaths. since then, ukraine has been slowly collapsing. now they are losing the war badly and it's clearly the west's fault.

many people here don't understand that we need to lower the temperature, and to engage in diplomacy, and reach a peaceful resolution to the conflict. if the west and that fool zelensky did this in the first place there would be no war. make no mistake it was western hubris and foolish calculus by zelensky that caused this conflict to become violent. the west by dismissing russian concerns. and zelensky by thinking nato had his back.

anyway, we don't really know much. both sides will lie to protect their interests and reach their goals. and you shouldn't just dismiss everything from one side while believe the other says.
personally, I think it's funny whenever i see people here say "fake news" or "russian propaganda" while believing that the united states government or the american media would never lie to them. remember, this is an information war as much as it is a real war.

---

Or some other nonsense.

There are many "muffins" like that on various forums, spreading propaganda.

And I wonder, what kind of people are they... and what about their conscience.
They know that they are not being honest and they are helping criminals with their writing - and yet, they write their lies anyway.

This is not some movie or academical debate.

This is real.

People die because of this stupid and unprovoked war. 50 - 200 Ukrainian soldiers die every single day.
About two weeks ago, one brave Ukrainian lady shared with us her concerns about her closest ones, who are in Ukrainian military. "How will Alyosha and Seryozha handle all of that?"
The people who are dying in Ukraine are not numbers. They are real people with families, childern, mothers and fathers.

@WildTiger said in #54:
> @dddelfin
>
> The mysterious MuffinMan has not responded so far, so let me imitate his persuasive and "honest" style.
>
> ---
>
>
>
> the real question here is not which cities got bombed and when - although ukrainians without any doubt shelled cities in Donbas, as a part of their genocide against the peaceful Russian population - the real question here is why the cities were bombed at the first place and how to stop the war.

You seem not to follow my discussion with TheMuffinMan2000 so you saying what 'real' question is is silly. Those questions are valid because answering them will tell you that Russia invaded Ukraine in Feb 2022 so Ukrainians soldiers fighting with Russian soldiers are defending their country within their own borders. So it is NOT equal as TheMuffinMan2000 suggested that the soldiers are just fighting for fun. Read the original discussion and do not try to suggest that you know the 'real' question.

After @bfchessguy sternly announced that he had reached the "end of discussion," he decided to continue it.

He accuses me of being "not respectful," which may be somewhat ironic. The reason I am "not respectful," I am told, is because I had already been given the answer! And yet I continued on with the discussion, refusing to nod and be corrected as he apparently feels I should have done.

Yet I must politely insist that I have been given nothing but the view of another polite person (@Coquelicoq, who was quite civil), not a "one true and permitted answer" that must stop all discussion and cannot be seen as anything but a refutation of my own views.

This exchange illustrates the very problem that concerns me. Some men and women apparently feel qualified to say when the "last word" has been uttered and when discussion "must end." And if one doesn't agree, and continues calmly to discuss the matter, one is denounced angrily and told that one has obvious failings, like a refusal to read! Imagine if such disgruntlement were to be given the force of law!

Actually, I have studied freedom of expression extensively, and have even addressed the matter professionally. And I continue to maintain that ideas and arguments should be rebutted with better ideas and better arguments, not cancelled and censored and stopped with threats, legal or otherwise. We learn better through debate than intimidation, I believe.

But I could be wrong, and look forward to calm and polite arguments to indicate why, if so.

@salmon_rushdie said in #52:
> Google winnie the pooh

Not my fault that you compare such a great leader to a cartoon character

@ChunHoLum said in #58:
> Not my fault that you compare such a great leader to a cartoon character
It was your country that thought it was funny, and then made it illegal lol

@ChunHoLum said in #58:
> Not my fault that you compare such a great leader to a cartoon character
Also here's some more fun things your totally benevolent dictatorship doesn't want you to know about